Re: [WinMac] Macs & Windows in schools

Subject: Re: [WinMac] Macs & Windows in schools
From: Tim Scoff (tim[at]scoff.net)
Date: Sun Jan 06 2002 - 13:31:28 EST

        I do consulting at schools for a living, and before I started
doing this I was a network administrator at a university. I have
experience administering, Mac networks, Windows networks, and mixed
networks.

        For a relatively unbiased source of information on how to
make Windows computers and Macs work together check out
http://www.macwindows.com/

        Citrix servers are useful for a number of reasons. The
school can ask for some donations of 486's with 4 MB of RAM and any
hard drive to run the Citrix client. That is all the more horsepower
that you need with the configuration of the Macs as you described it.
Of course there are two major bottlenecks with this configuration.
One of them is the network and the other one is the Citrix server.
The server has to be powerful enough for every user in the school to
log in and launch MS Word at the same time, which takes a fair amount
of power. Plus the network has to be configured so that it has
enough bandwidth to push screen shots across the network for every
user. A 10 base T network can't cut it for the environment which you
described.
        Citrix servers need to be powerful, and $15k isn't
unreasonable for a high end Wintel server. However I doubt very
strongly that you need two of them to provide an acceptable
performance level if you have a decent network.
        The down side to Citrix servers is that you're left with a
single point of failure. In the case of your school because you have
two of them you have a backup, which is a good thing. With only one
if it goes down every computer on your network also goes down.

        If you replace all of your network hardware with Cisco
equipment you can easily spend $40k in the environment which you
described. I know of an Intermediate Unit which spent $50k to put in
a brand new network, and they do not have anywhere near 100 computers
on their network. In my opinion they went overboard, but it's easy
to spend that much money. Of course they did run all brand new
cables in addition to replacing all of the electronics. Their 3Com
10/100 switches weren't good enough any more and had to be replaced
with Cisco 10/100 switches. :-)

        Administering a cross platform network can be extremely
difficult. Not because the work is that hard, it isn't. But because
the end users see different things and when they ask you something
you need to figure out what they're really asking before you can
answer them. For example, if a secretary has a Windows computer and
a teacher has a Mac and they want to share files the secretary is
likely to call up and ask if the teacher can access her s: drive,
which is a shared drive on the server. Then you have to show the
teacher how to use the Chooser to access the Common share on the
server, which is how the Mac users see the drive.
        Add in the fact that most people who work with computers know
little to nothing about Macs and it gets a little bit more difficult.
It's not that they aren't intelligent, it's that they've never
touched a Mac and see no reason to touch one. If they haven't
touched one how can they support one? Let alone how can they support
a network of Macs?

        My suggestion for the Technology Committee is that you do an
analysis of your school's needs. Then do an objective analysis of
the costs and benefits of the potential solutions and pick the
solution that meets your needs the best. You aren't going to find a
solution that meets your needs perfectly, but you should find one
that meets your needs extremely well.

        First your network. You can leave it as it is, upgrade it
with new electronics, or upgrade it with new electronics and cables.
        If you decide to upgrade compare a couple of different brands
of hardware. Cisco will cost you more than anyone else and I don't
see any real benefit to Cisco's switches over another vendor's
switches, especially in a small network like yours.

        Second your computers. You can leave them as they are. You
can leave the client workstations as they are and upgrade the Citrix
servers and the network. You can migrate away from the Citrix
environment to one where the applications run locally and upgrade
your workstations. You can do that and upgrade some of the servers
also.
        You can go with a 100% Mac environment on the desktop. You
can go with a 100% Windows environment on the desktop. You can go
with a 100% Linux environment on the desktop. Or you can go with a
mixed environment. One critical point to consider when making this
decision is software. What software licenses do you own? What will
the software which you'll need cost you with each of these options?
That is a hidden cost that might make it so that you only have one
option because you can only afford to use your existing licenses and
upgrade some of them.

        Good luck, you've got a tough decision ahead of you and it
sounds like the wrong person is helping advise the committee on what
your needs are.

>I need a little help with an issue of Macs & PCs in mixed network
>academic environments. I am looking for the following:
>
>1. Information links, unbiased research reports, mail lists, news
>groups, etc. regarding mixed environment networks in schools (junior
>high and high school, and possibly college). Your experience, if
>you administer or work with such a network in an education
>environment, would be particularly helpful. (If your school has
>gone all one way or another, I would also like to know your
>experience.)
>
>2. Market information with respect to Apple's school market: e.g.
>current prevalence, sales market share, etc.
>
>3. Demographic information with respect to Mac users vs PC users:
>Income, Education, etc.
>
>4. Anything else that might help support the position of maintaining
>a mixed network, rather than shifting to an all PC network.
>
>Please send any longer responses, or responses with attachments,
>directly to me (rick@kentgroup.org) rather than burdening this list
>server. Thank you.
>
>BACKGROUND, if you are interested:
>
>I am on the technology committee of my daughter's new high school.
>There is a move afoot at the school to eliminate Macs, and switch to
>an all PC network. Currently about two thirds of the roughly 170
>computers are Macs, but they are apparently quite old-- I am trying
>to get more specifics but apparently they are mostly vintage 7100
>type machines.
>
>The age of the Macs is not their biggest problem however.
>Apparently they do not even run native Mac apps on those Macs. Not
>even an email client. Everything is run through a pair of Citrix
>servers as PC apps. Yes, they run PageMaker and Word as PC apps
>through the Citrix servers to the Macs as clients. And yes, they
>are complaining about performance. Not surprising since they are
>also pushing all that Citrix stuff across a poorly configured,
>primarily 10 BaseT network.
>
>They have hired a consultant-- an MCSE of course who I don't think
>has ever consulted for an educational institution before-- and he is
>recommending eliminating the Macs-- what he refers to as a
>"proprietary" platform-- to reduce costs and increase performance in
>the long run. He is also recommending about $60K worth of new Dell
>servers, including two $15K each servers which he says will serve as
>"Citrix Load Balancing Servers". They already spent over $11K on a
>new server for just the business office. Note that this is a school
>of about 500 students and maybe less than 100 faculty and staff.
>
>(Yes, he has also recommended spending up to $40K to upgrade the
>network architecture, which between wiring closets is currently
>state of the art, including optical fiber as well as Cat 5, but is
>hampered by a patchwork of poorly integrated 10BaseT hubs in the
>closets and peripherally. He has not been specific about what that
>$40K would be spent on.)
>
>This all seems to me like money over spent for the wrong things.
>(They are buying the server equipment directly from Dell, so unless
>there is some kind of consultant kickback program in Dell's
>educational buying program, I don't think he is profiting directly
>from this possible server overkill.) I cannot imagine why a network
>of this size would need so much server power. On the surface it
>seems they should modestly upgrade their NT servers, clean up all
>the wiring closets with 100 BaseT switches & hubs (and optical
>switches in key locations, since they already have the optical fiber
>in place), and spend the rest of the money upgrading Macs & PCs for
>faculty, staff, and student use.
>
>But that is a gut feeling on my part, and I need more support,
>especially unbiased factual information regarding the Macs in such
>an educational environment.
>
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-- 

Tim Scoff AST, MCSE
tim@scoff.net
http://www.scoff.net/
(724) 342-3173
Cell - (724) 866-7862

"You can't help getting older, but you don't have to get old."
                - George Burns

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