so you'll know where the next message begins. There was a lot of
quoting and requoting of previous messages so I've tried to chop that
out and give you just the newest comments. Overall the response was
quite positive but then again this is a Retrospect list. I was just
amazed at how many of these folks used to use ARCserve and have since switched.
Another issue is with the Retro windows client. A Mac backup server will
not back up a NT4 server which has MSSQL 7 installed, there is some sort
of conflict. It will work fine with Oracle, however. The Retro Win app
will run fine with MSSQL 7 however. This is too bad as the best thing I
can think of is to use a Mac to backup your Win servers (boy does that
annoy the Bill Gates zombies).
--
James Cobb
Network Manager
LifeNet
5809 Ward Court
Virginia Beach, VA
1-800-TISSUE-1
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: ARCserve vs Retrospect Server Backup
Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2001 08:59:04 -0800
From: Irena Solomon <irena_solomon@dantz.com>
Reply-To: "retro-talk" <retro-talk@latchkey.com>
To: retro-talk <retro-talk@latchkey.com>
Hi Jim,
Thanks for the feedback! I just wanted to clarify a few points though, as
you seem to be running into limitations that should not exist.
> for some reason the support for the HP DLT drive was dropped in that version.
Drive support is never removed when we release a software update. Any device
supported in 5.11 is also supported in 5.15. If 5.15 is having trouble
seeing your drive for some reason, there's something going on that is
preventing Retrospect from loading the correct driver.
> A Mac backup server will not back up a NT4 server which has MSSQL 7 installed,
there is some sort of conflict.
Having MSSQL 7 installed on a machine won't, on it's own, prevent a backup
of that computer to a Mac. The only limit you'll run into is that Retrospect
is unable to back up open databases, but this isn't a function of
backing up
to a Mac server. This is because database files have a "lock range," which
locks in all or part of a database so that it cannot be accessed by any
other application when it is being accessed by the database software.
> One more annoying thing about Retro Windows is that you cannot browse to your
target files
In what situation? There are very few situations that would require you to
know a path name to access a volume.
> And retro cannot not run as a service
Retrospect uses the Retrospect Launcher Service to automatically launch when
the program is not open. You needn't even be logged in to Windows for the
program to automatically launch! For more on this, see page 154 of the 5.0
User's Guide.
I advise you to contact Tech Support with any questions. We can help you get
your drive showing up in 5.15 or configure any aspect of Retrospect to take
advantage of it's features.
Best Regards,
Irena Solomon
Dantz Technical Support
925.253.3050
++++++++
Try our new Searchable Knowledgebase at:
http://partners.dantz.com:591/faq/
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: ARCserve vs Retrospect Server Backup
Date: 07 Mar 2001 12:27:45 -0500
From: Jim Cobb <jcobb@tissue.org>
Reply-To: "retro-talk" <retro-talk@latchkey.com>
To: <retro-talk@latchkey.com>
>> Jim Cobb wrote:
>>
>> I am using Retro Windows to backup a HP LH4 NT4 server with
>> no problems. I cannot upgrade to the latest version (5.15) as
>> for some reason the support for the HP DLT drive was dropped
>> in that version.
>On Wednesday, March 7, 2001 10:47 AM, tomroth@wfubmc.edu wrote:
>Jim,
>
>Appreciate your comments. Which HP DLT drive is that? We're currently
>using a Quantum DLT4000 on a Dell PowerEdge Server and are planning to
>replace that with one of the new HP Ultrium drives this summer. I
>thought all of these drives were supported according to the
>Dantz web page.
This is a 4000 unit. The odd thing is that we use a DLT 4000 jukebox on
a Mac with no problem, why it does not recognize this particular HP unit
I don't know. I turned in a bug report to Dantz but have not received
any workd on it.
>
>For the Mac's we've got Retrospect running on a PowerMac 7500 with an
>Exabyte 8mm. I was thinking I'd still keep the two backups separate but
>move the DLT4000 to the Mac when we get the Ultrium for the Dell server.
> Comments? We're short on capacity now with both systems and no tape
>library is or will be available.
It seems the Mac driver set is more complete than the windows one, I
suspect that you will have no problem with this at all.
>> But 5.11 seems to be running with no problems so it's no big
>> deal. A big dissapointment is the lack backup to FTP server
>> which is so cool on the Mac version.
>
>I never upgraded my Mac version to do that as I didn't see a need for
>it. Do you use that feature and if so, why and how?
We do a secondary backup to an off-site linux box for disaster recovery
(fire, flood whatever). It creates a backup set on the FTP server and
treats it like a tape, it's pretty cool and works well. I don't consider
it our primary backup but a redundant one.
>> One more annoying thing about Retro Windows is that you cannot
>> browse to your target files, you must know the path/name of your
>> target directory.
>
>Not the end of the world but something perhaps they'll address
>soon.
>
>> And retro cannot not run as a service so somebody
>> putzing around with the server could quit out of retro and your
>> backup won't take place. I think this was more or less rectified in
>> version 5.15, but I'm not sure.
>
>I may look into that further. ARCserve has a bunch of services running
>for all sorts of things but it seems like an awful lot of program(s)
>just to do a backup.
NT allocates it's resources better to a service than to a running app.
>> Currently I have no data on server 2000 to give you.
>
>I know of a few folks using it for workstations but not for servers.
>
>> As you know Arcserve is a confusing PITA nightmare of a program and
>> I will take Retrospect, warts and all, over that software any day of the
>> week.
>
>I started using Retrospect years ago to do Mac backups and it's always
>been so much better than any PC backup program I've used. When they
>came out with a PC Retrospect I was glad to see it.
Yes, I am a loooong time Retro user as well, its excellent software. I
hope to hell that Dantz does not follow the software industry's time
honored practice of developing a killer app on a Mac and then dumping
the Mac version in order to make the big bucks on the windoze platform.
That would be a truly sad day indeed.
Regards-
Jim
-----Original Message-----
From: retro-talk@latchkey.com [mailto:retro-talk@latchkey.com]On Behalf
Of Irena Solomon
Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2001 11:59 AM
To: retro-talk
Subject: Re: ARCserve vs Retrospect Server Backup
Hi Jim,
Thanks for the feedback! I just wanted to clarify a few points though, as
you seem to be running into limitations that should not exist.
> for some reason the support for the HP DLT drive was dropped in that
version.
Drive support is never removed when we release a software update. Any device
supported in 5.11 is also supported in 5.15. If 5.15 is having trouble
seeing your drive for some reason, there's something going on that is
preventing Retrospect from loading the correct driver.
> A Mac backup server will not back up a NT4 server which has MSSQL 7
installed, there is some sort of conflict.
Having MSSQL 7 installed on a machine won't, on it's own, prevent a backup
of that computer to a Mac. The only limit you'll run into is that Retrospect
is unable to back up open databases, but this isn't a function of
backing up
to a Mac server. This is because database files have a "lock range," which
locks in all or part of a database so that it cannot be accessed by any
other application when it is being accessed by the database software.
> One more annoying thing about Retro Windows is that you cannot browse to
your target files
In what situation? There are very few situations that would require you to
know a path name to access a volume.
> And retro cannot not run as a service
Retrospect uses the Retrospect Launcher Service to automatically launch when
the program is not open. You needn't even be logged in to Windows for the
program to automatically launch! For more on this, see page 154 of the 5.0
User's Guide.
I advise you to contact Tech Support with any questions. We can help you get
your drive showing up in 5.15 or configure any aspect of Retrospect to take
advantage of it's features.
Best Regards,
Irena Solomon
Dantz Technical Support
925.253.3050
++++++++
Try our new Searchable Knowledgebase at:
http://partners.dantz.com:591/faq/
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: RE: ARCserve vs Retrospect Server Backup
Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 12:45:58 -0500
From: "Stephen Jones" <sjones@cybernetics.com>
Reply-To: "retro-talk" <retro-talk@latchkey.com>
To: "'retro-talk'" <retro-talk@latchkey.com>
I wonder if St. Bernard's Open File Manager will work in conjunction with
Retrospect? It works with a ton of other software vendors. Their web site
is www.stbernard.com.
I do not have any affiliation with that package, I'm just making it
known it
exists and may help guys looking for SQL, Exchange or Open file backup.
Steve
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: ARCserve vs Retrospect Server Backup
Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2001 09:59:45 -0800
From: Irena Solomon <irena_solomon@dantz.com>
Reply-To: "retro-talk" <retro-talk@latchkey.com>
To: retro-talk <retro-talk@latchkey.com>
Absolutely! St. Bernard Software's Open File Manager will allow Retrospect
to back up most open files. For more specifics, pricing, etc., contact St.
Bernard. You would install Open File Manager on a Windows client being
backed up by Retrospect for Windows only. Retrospect for Mac does not
trigger OFM.
In addition, some database applications can create a mirror of an open
database file which can be backed up by Retrospect (since the mirror would
be an inactive copy). If your open files are being used by one of these
applications, you can look into trying this.
Dantz's resource for database backup is at:
http://www.dantz.com/index.php3?SCREEN=db_addons
You can sign up here to be notified when we release a SQL agent and find out
what other agents are in development.
Regards,
Irena Solomon
Dantz Technical Support
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: ARCserve vs Retrospect Server Backup
Date: 07 Mar 2001 13:46:21 -0500
From: Jim Cobb <jcobb@tissue.org>
Reply-To: "retro-talk" <retro-talk@latchkey.com>
To: <retro-talk@latchkey.com>
Hi Irena-
On Wednesday, March 7, 2001 11:59 AM, Irena Solomon
<irena_solomon@dantz.com> wrote:
>Hi Jim,
>
>Thanks for the feedback! I just wanted to clarify a few points though, as
>you seem to be running into limitations that should not exist.
>
>> for some reason the support for the HP DLT drive was dropped
>in that version.
>
>Drive support is never removed when we release a software update. Any device
>supported in 5.11 is also supported in 5.15. If 5.15 is having trouble
>seeing your drive for some reason, there's something going on that is
>preventing Retrospect from loading the correct driver.
Well, that something started with version 5.15, I'll be darned if I know
what it is.
>> A Mac backup server will not back up a NT4 server which has MSSQL 7 installed,
>there is some sort of conflict.
>
>Having MSSQL 7 installed on a machine won't, on it's own, prevent a backup
>of that computer to a Mac. The only limit you'll run into is that Retrospect
>is unable to back up open databases, but this isn't a function of
backing up
>to a Mac server. This is because database files have a "lock range," which
>locks in all or part of a database so that it cannot be accessed by any
>other application when it is being accessed by the database
>software.
The backups I am attempting to do are dump files, nothing active. I have
2 identical machines, one running Oracle and the other running MSSQL and
the remote backup fails everytime on the MSSQL. So I bought the Windows
version of Retro to do the MSSQL machines and it has no problem backing
up these files to a local DLT drive (assuming I'm using 5.11 that is).
>> One more annoying thing about Retro Windows is that you cannot browse
to your
>target files
>
>In what situation? There are very few situations that would require you to
>know a path name to access a volume.
When you are setting up a script and you need to point to a particular
subdirectory you have to manually type in the path. A browse button next
to the path box would be useful, especially if that particular
subdirectory is buried.
>> And retro cannot not run as a service
>
>Retrospect uses the Retrospect Launcher Service to automatically launch when
>the program is not open. You needn't even be logged in to Windows for the
>program to automatically launch! For more on this, see page 154 of the 5.0
>User's Guide.
>
>I advise you to contact Tech Support with any questions. We can help
you get
>your drive showing up in 5.15 or configure any aspect of Retrospect to take
>advantage of it's features.
This issue was reported to Dantz tech support who said they'd get back
with me, but I have not heard from them. Like I said, back-grading to
5.11 fixed the problem so I'm not upset. I was thinking that perhaps
this latest driver update you all just put out might fix the problem but
I don't have the time right now to experiment with it.
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: ARCserve vs Retrospect Server Backup
Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2001 10:50:21 -0800
From: Ben Eastwood <ben_eastwood@wilweb.com>
Reply-To: "retro-talk" <retro-talk@latchkey.com>
To: retro-talk <retro-talk@latchkey.com>
I have lots to comment on this thread! I Love Retro and ditched Arcserve for
Retro about six months ago. I had used it for years to back up Macs, and now
I'm using it for about ten NT servers, Including one that has over 160
GB of
Drive space, a couple that run MS SQL Server 7, and a Lotus Notes server.
Lots of open DBs on that one. Here are some things I've found:
Retro is much more reliable than Arcserve. It just works. Its easier to
setup, more flexible, and most importantly, easier to restore from.
Open File Manager works to back up the open databases just fine, BUT there
is a conflict between OFM and NT's services for macintosh that causes nasty
crashes on the server being backed up. There is apparently fix for this
available from MS, but it is not available for download, it requires a
(paid) service call to MS Support. I is supposed to be fixed in the next NT
SP, but with Win2k on the market, that may never come. I don't know it
it is
a problem in Win2k. I'll be finding out soon...
I have also had trouble with the 400,000 file/defined volume limit in
Retrospect. As web developers we are working with a lot of little files in
pretty complex directory structures. When a Retrospect volume contains more
than 400,000 files you will start to get -519 out of memory errors and the
backup will fail.
The workaround for this is to define the Retrospect volumes at a lower level
of the directory structure, which is a bit of a pain. If that is not
workable, you could try scheduling an automated task with an NT "at" command
to have the large folder zipped into an archive before the backup runs and
them backup the archive. A little Rube Goldberg, but it should work. I
haven't tried it though...
I have been told that this will be fixed in the next version of Retrospect.
I can't wait!
Backing up servers is one thing, but Retrospect's advantages really become
apparent when you want to backup workstations as well. the "backup server"
function is really cool, especially if you have laptop users. Retrospect
uses the network very efficiently! And since the Server version comes with
100 clients, you should have no trouble with client licensing unless you
have a pretty big organization.
I hope this helps, Tom.
--
Ben Eastwood
IT Manager
wilweb.com
5650 Hollis St.
Suite 2
Emeryville CA, 94608
510-594-7037
ben_eastwood@wilweb.com
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: ARCserve vs Retrospect Server Backup
Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 10:18:10 -0900
From: matt barkdull <mattb@iarc.uaf.edu>
Reply-To: "retro-talk" <retro-talk@latchkey.com>
To: "retro-talk" <retro-talk@latchkey.com>
References: <919329214jcobb@tissue.org>
My department has two DLT4000 drives, one connected to a Mac and the
other to a
PC. The one connected to the PC is an autochanger. Both work
flawlessly with the current versions of Retrospect and OS's on the
machines.
We switched from Arcserve on the PC to Retrospect and have never
looked back. Arcserve was very expensive cow of a program. In
total, we spent about $3000 on software just to get the network
backups to happen. The interface is terrible and the guy that was
trying to learn all the facets of Arcserve had a hell of a time
proving that the backups were happening at all! We discovered that
we were reading the log incorrectly and that it was skipping about
4-5 machines during backup. Unfortunately, one of the machines had
crashed.
We switched to Retrospect about a week later and now we can easily
look at the report and see which machines were backed up each night.
I know that probably 99% of the problem was lack of understanding the
program, but if it takes that much understanding to even tell if the
backups happened, it's not for me. Retrospect, nothing else even
close.
If Dantz went out of business, we'd all switch to Linux around here. :)
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: RE: ARCserve vs Retrospect Server Backup
Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 17:11:38 -0500
From: "Kraut, David" <DKraut@hooveribcs.com>
Reply-To: "retro-talk" <retro-talk@latchkey.com>
To: 'retro-talk' <retro-talk@latchkey.com>
I use it to back up a mix of (20) NT4 and Win2000 Servers. The retrospect
program is running on a 2000 Server and works fine. I've also used ArcServe
in the past and wild horses couldn't drag me back to that nightmare of a
product!! :)
David Kraut
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: RE: ARCserve vs Retrospect Server Backup
Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 05:55:58 -0500
From: "Adam Cohen" <adam@cyber-doctors.com>
Reply-To: "retro-talk" <retro-talk@latchkey.com>
To: "retro-talk" <retro-talk@latchkey.com>
I used to use ArcServe to backup an NT Server 4 as well as 50 Clients. What
a nasty, bad, nightmare ect.... experience(especially for restoring). Now
comes the good news. I have been using Retrospect 5.15 to backup the same
at this client and at many other clients as well. It is simply GREAT. The
best part and what we are using it for which is the Restore functionality.
Very clean and simple. I can't say enough great comments on the product.
On top of that is the Support. Computer Associates can't come close. Dantz
has the right idea. Make a product that works and support its customers.
On Open File manager. I use the current version 7.0 and works without a
hitch with Retrospect. Even backs up an Open Exchange Server Post Office.
Previous versions 6.0 and before didn't work very well with Retrospect.
Regards,
Adam Cohen
CyberDoctors, Inc.
www.cyber-doctors.com
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: ARCserve vs Retrospect Server Backup
Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 10:25:38 -0600
From: NetHead <nethead@pecandeluxe.com>
Reply-To: "retro-talk" <retro-talk@latchkey.com>
To: "retro-talk" <retro-talk@latchkey.com>
I have thoroughly enjoyed this thread. I, too, am a long-time Retrospect
user. I only began using Arcserve because it was the only way to backup
my Netware server. I still use Arcserve for that, but everything else,
including my NT4 Server is backed up by Retrospect.
Now, to be fair, Arcserve is a little arcane to set up, but once you
know
the ins and outs its not TOO awful... about like getting a cavity
filled... unpleasant, but better than a root-canal!
Now, on to the story I wanted to tell... and another reason to pick
Retrospect.
I originally planned to back up my NT4 server via Arcserve. There were a
lot of reasons for this that made sense at the time. I purchased
Arcserve's Client Agent for NT and set up the backup and things were
going smoothly. But, being the administrator that I am, I HATE to
actually get up from my desk and walk up to a computer to check it's
status or monitor it's activity. I prefer logging in remotely via
Timbuktu and doing my management that way. So, after researching and
finding that Timbuktu WOULD indeed run on my NT4 server, I wasted no
time
in installing it. The very next day, my NT4 server was NOT backed up by
Arcserve. To make a VERY long story short, nothing I tried could make
the
NT server appear for Arcserve again. I uninstalled Timbuktu; uninstalled
& reinstalled Client Agent; contacted Arcserve tech support; contacted
Timbuktu tech support; got Arcserve & Timbuktu techs to talk to each
other... in the end, Arcserve washed their hands of it saying it was
Timbuktu's fault and MAYBE if I reinstalled NT4 I could get back Client
Agent. Anyone ever "reinstalled" NT on a critical server that has now
not
been backed up for over 2 weeks?!?
I hung up the phone and started checking out Retrospect's capabilities
to
handle backing up NT servers. I installed Retrospect on my NT server and
have not regretted it for one second.
Kudos to Dantz for making such a great product! So... when are you guys
going to add support for Netware? :-)
===============
end of thread
===============