[WinMac] Re: Re: MacOS 9: Upgrade now or wait? ALSO: NT4/SP6 is out
Daniel L. Schwartz(expresso[at]snip.net)
Fri, 29 Oct 1999 15:47:20 -0400
OK, I'll respond inline...
At 01:02 PM 10/29/99 -0400, you wrote:
>Okay, Microsoft hasn't *Charged* for the bugfixes...but what new
>features have they added as compared to what YOU are calling *bugfixes*
>
>hmm....well, sp3 made you do registry hacks to keep clear text
>passwords...that's a fun feature...not much else
>
>now, let's just see what Apple's *bugfixes* did, starting with 7.6.1 as
>the base
>
>8.0
> multithreaded finder
> PPC native finder
> sticky menus
-> Shareware "borrowing"
> popup windows
-> Shareware "borrowing"
> threaded file copies and trash empties
-> Long a staple of SpeedDoubler
> cut out the '030 macs, long time coming, unlike the intel bolt-on
>theory
Wrong: They cut out non-32 bit clean machines.
>
>8.1 (free, but you *forgot* this one)
> New file system, HFS+
-> With *no* repair tools until NUM 3.5 many months later...
> VM system improved, using actual paged VM, nice performance increase
-> Baloney: VM still requires - To this day - a contiguous block
equal to the size of the desired VM size is required, unlike
OS/2, NT, *nix... Or even windoze 3.1!
> Open Transport upgrade, allows for single link multihoming
> ppc native filemanager
-> Yeah, it took over FOUR years for this.
>
>8.5
> no more 68K macs!!(yay!)
-> WRONG! 68k Macs (including the just-previously released
PB190) were Steveified with 8.1. Besides, you call this
an "Upgrade?!"
> PPC native applescript
-> Yeah, it took over FOUR years for this.
> actual appearance controls, allowing for better customization
-> Shareware rolled in...
> Desktop printing and Network setups scriptable
> Radically faster Finder copies and Network I/O
-> Again, "borrowed" from SpeedDoubler
> Sherlock
-> "Borrowed" from Copernic...
> SNMP
-> Aw, shucks, MacSNMP has been around since Apple Internet
Router 3.0
>
>8.5.1
> FREE bug fixes
> Fixed random, and uncommon disk corruption
> Fixed some applescript memory leaks
>
>8.6
> Free
> Fixed a lot of DHCP errors
-> Including Apple's incorrect implementation, per the chairman of
the IETF's DHCP subcommittee...
> Fixed a *long* standing ethernet driver bugs
-> Why was it so long standing to begin with?!
> more code transitioned to PPC Native
> Cron - type scheduler included on CD
> FTP/HTTP up and downloads now scriptable
>
>8.6.1
> Actually, a fix for a single problem, font corruption, not an OS
> update. 8.6.1 is what folks called it.
-> This is why you have regression testing. Even PageMaker 6.52 - One
of the most popular MacOS apps - failed the FontFixer test.
>
>9.0
[OS9 stuff cut, because I haven't deployed this ".0" release yet...]
>
>
>Gee, some actual new features...worth paying for, and a more than a few free
>bugfixes. So in 2 years, we went from 8.0 to 9.0, shed a boatload of 68k
>code, fixed a LOT of longstanding bugs.
Ever hear of "Fat Binary?! Of course, the 68k code was long overdue
in being shed... Because the 68k OS support was also shed.
.AND.
Paying for bugfixes?! Gimme a break!
>Did some stuff break, yes. Is that a
>surprise, no. Has NT done any better? Not even close, and heck, Win2k is not
>even half the OS that NT 5 was promised to be.
So tell me, have you actually *used* NT5 (W2k) yet? In a production
environment? I have (b3RC1), and it works nicely... Especially the enhanced
SFM implementing AFP/IP directly?!
Yeah, some of the enterprise stuff in W2k will be missing in the original
release, such as failover/clustering... But they will be free add-ons
included in a Service Pack. After all, with 65 million lines of code
*something* has to give!
>
>"Daniel L. Schwartz" wrote:
>>
>> Aw shucks, John...
>>
>> First off, Micros~1 froze the code for SP6 before officially
releasing
>it
>> - That's why you see Post-SP6 HotFixes!
>
>Yeah, but holy moly, each SP is hundreds of bugs, mostly security, and then
>you still see new hotfixes *daily* almost. That's insane
>
>>
>> Next, Apple works *very* closely with Adobe on MacOS "features:"
After
>> all, if you wrote an OS, wouldn't *you* work with your single largest ISV
>> to ensure compatibility?
>
>Apple has for *years* told people that that FCB loophole was going to close,
>esp. in OSX, and they better stop using it. SURPRISE, they weren't kidding.
>
>>
>> This is the *SECOND* time iCEO Job's Apple dropped the ball with
ATM:
>> Apple also screwed the pooch with MacOS 8.6 (MacOS 8.5/SP2?!) breaking ATM
>> Deluxe 4.0.
>
>ATM is NOT ATM Deluxe! ATM is a control panels that deals with on-screen
>font rendering of postscript fonts. ATM deluxe is a font management system.
>ATM was NOT broken by 8.6, ATM deluxe WAS. Again, the font changes that
>happened in 8.6 were clearly documented in at least one TIL that came out
>with 8.5.1. Adobe chooses to ignore this, and ATM Deluxe and PageMaker both
>break. Photoshop, Illustrator, Acrobat, and thousands of other apps did NOT
>break.
>
>>
>> Fool me once - Shame on You. Fool me twice - Shame on Me.
>
>"Doctor, it hurts when I stick this fork in my eye." "Well, stop sticking
>the fork in your eye." "No, you don't understand, I want you to make it stop
>hurting"
>
>>
>> By the way, since NT4 was released in early 1996, M$ (sic) has
>released
>> six Service Packs... All for FREE.
>
>And all told, how many THOUSAND bugfixes are a part of these, how many had
>to be withdrawn and re-issued, because MS QA can't be freaking bothered to
>test them adequately, and how many actual *new* features were included? Why
>can't NT *still*, on a BRAND new Dell P-III boot off a partition that is
>over 2 GB in size, while I have Win98 machines that are OLDER booting from 4
>- 10 GB partitions, and Macs booting off of 10 GB partitions? WHY can't NT
>change an IP address without rebooting? Why hasn't Microsoft made dealing
>with the registry, something you HAVE to do WAY too often, a better, SAFER
>process?
>
>
>
>>
>> Apple: MacOS 7.6 $99
>> MacOS 8 $99
>> MacOS 8.5 $99
>> MacOS 9 $99
>> ------------------------
>>
>> TOTAL MacOS bugfixes: $396
>
>You get what you pay for
>>
>> Cost for NT4/W: $178
>
>Considering AGAIN that NT 4 sp0 is essentially the same as NT4 sp6, I would
>certainly HOPE that I didn't have to pay for bugfix after bugfix.
>
>>
>> Now, where's the "value" for MacOS?!
>
>Gee, almost 2.5 full versions of the OS for $396. Lets see, if we start with
>NT 3.1, and go to NT 4, let's see...3.1, 3.5, 3.5.1, 4.0, and ALL the *free*
>bugfixes in between, (anyone want to take a crack at THAT number?), and
>assuming the price hasn't gone up any...
>
>NT 3.1 $178
>NT 3.5 $178
>NT 3.5.1 $178
>NT 4.0 $178
>Total $890 dollars
>
>Oh...I almost forgot...If you had a 386 for NT 3.1...which MS assured you it
>would run on, that's another $2000 for a new box.
>
>True, if you had a 68K Mac with 7.6.1, you would have also had to by a new
>box for 8.5...$1300
>
>If you bought your Mac new when 7.6 came out...$0...it would have been a
>PowerMac.
>
>The Mac's value still holds up fairly well I think, and at least Apple
>ADMITS when it screws up....Microsoft just lies louder and faster
>
>
>Hey Dan, how much is it going to cost your Alpha Clients who need Win2K?
>Them high end Intel boxes ain't cheap. Oh well, at least the OS is a
>value....
>
>john
>
>>
>> At 03:57 PM 10/28/99 -0400, my good friend "Neutron Jack" wrote:
>> >Sigh...gee...Adobe had the needed updates on their sight within 24
hours of
>> >9's release. Must have missed that Dan. Also, make sure you wait for the
>> >obligatory Microsoft "Oops, the service pack is broke, we're pulling it,
>> >sorry if you already installed it and hosed your system. The fixed service
>> >pack will be out real soon now"
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on Fri Oct 29 1999 - 16:29:49 PDT
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