[WinMac] Re: Apple Drives

Dan Schwartz(expresso[at]snip.net)
Tue, 22 Dec 1998 10:20:45 -0500

        Sigh...

        Yes, Apple has hard drives built for them by Quantum, Seagate, IBM, etc.

        But just because these drives have the same OEM part number series on
them, they also contain Apple-specific ROM code (firmware). This is denoted
by the small white sticker with the red Apple logo; and also when the drive
description is called for by a particular SCSI command from the initiator.

        This Apple-specific firmware serves several purposes, including:

        1) Acting as an identifier so HD SC Setup would only work on those drives;

        2) In some cases, lock the drive into SCSI-1 mode, despite that both the
controller (initiator) and HDD controller board are capable of handling the
SCSI-2 command set.

        The ResEdit "hacks" you were referring to, as well as patchers (including
the famous patcher for HD SC Setup 7.3.2), simply disabled the checking for
the Apple-specific firmware identifier. This allowed one to use the
formatter on not only, say, an Apple branded Quantum Lightning 730 but also
on a "standard" Quantum Lightning 730.

        The lookup tables that formatting software contain (and hence the
"support" for a specific drive model) is used to set (optimize) the
user-adjustable drive parms, such as on-drive caching, blind transfers, etc...

        [For those who also use NT, in Disk Administrator there is also a lookup
table that not only looks at the drive model but also the firmware
revision. As it turns out, (according to Paul Bunn
<mailto:Paul@UltraBac.com> there are about a dozen "troublesome" drives on
this list, where later firmware revisions have fixed the problem.]

 ----------

        Now, on to formatting software:

        I somewhat agree with David Story... Some of FWB's formatting software is
pretty good, especially the now-supplanted RAID Toolkit (RTK). However,
I've continually had trouble with many versions of Hard Disk Toolkit (HDT).
I've also used Drive7, and although it was OK, I prefer LaCie Silverlining.

        Personally, for single drive systems, I use LaCie Silverlining 5.8.3. I've
yet to have it fail; and it was more than ready for MacOS 8.5 when v5.8.3
was released about a year ago. And now that LaCie opened up the
Silverlining 5.8.3 updater to handle any copy -- Including single use
OEM-supplied versions with an "x" on the end (such as 5.6.2x) -- you can
now handle MacOS upgrades more easily.

        Also, Conley wrote the Apple RAID formatting software, originally shipped
on the "System 7.5.1 for Workgroup Servers" CD. If memory serves me
correctly, it was AppleRAID 1.0.2; and unlike the single drive versions of
HD SC Setup, AppleRAID would work with *any* SCSI drive. In fact, it was
recommended to use it on all drives, even if a given drive did not have any
RAID partitions on it (so that there would only be one SCSI driver loaded).

 ----------

At 12:01 AM 12/22/98 -0500, David Story wrote:
>I'm happy to see that my comments spurred a few responses about something
>that is not well understood by everyone.
>
>Mr Thorstad got it right.
>
>>HD Setup is not very picky about SCSI drives since probably your 80% were
>>all made for Macs. And there were fewer companies actually making drives.
>>Apple's software is picky about IDE, though. And Apple has always had a
>>short list, like NT now has, of hardware. For plug n play capability.
>
>Mr Johnston did too.
>
>>Actually this isn't completely the case, else that Micropolis 4gb drive I
>>bought at onsale (nary an apple logo in sight) wouldn't have worked...or any
>>of the other various drives I've had. Apple's Drive utility is specific to
>>particular _models_ of SCSI drive,
>
>However, unless I'm misunderstanding something, it appears that Mr Lee did
not.
>
>>Stupid Apple ROMS! (Sorry, but it annoys me that Apple just won't buy
>>the rights to the fine FWB product and then give it away, instead of
>>forcing us to use "Apple-approved" drives with Apple HD Setup.)
>
>
>This has nothing to do with Apple ROMs at all. An Apple branded drive does
>not have Apple ROMs. It has everything to do with code written into Apple's
>SCSI formatter which you can see with ResEdit. If your particular drive
>type isn't included in that list and doesn't include certain code, you
>can't use Apple's formatter, simple as that. However, if you are a bit
>inventive (or foolhardy), you can hack the code and add your own hard drive
>descriptions which will make Apple's SCSI formatter recognize your
>particular brand. I've done it, and of course, Apple doesn't recommend this
>:-) When you buy an Apple drive, you buy one which they have formatted with
>their particular driver. If you overwrite their driver, you're dead. Then
>you're into FWB or Drive 7 or someone else's (which I'm sure most
>consultants already know, at least up until this new driver came out
>anyway).
>
>Also the new Apple formatter (v1.6.1) will recognize practically everything
>except for some of the larger sized drives (over 9 gigs). For these I've
>had to use a 3rd party formatter. I don't know about v1.6.2 yet.
>
>BTW, you might be interested to know that Apple pays Prosoft to write their
>formatter now (V1.6.1). I believe, although I am not sure, that they may
>have used Charis Engineering in the past. Prosoft are the guys who make
>Drive 7, probably the best and most reliable SCSI formatter that I have
>ever used.
>
>Also, in my opinion, FWB's product has been less than stellar on occasion,
>over the period of it's life (and I have been in it since v1.0.) It's like
>the little boy with the curl, when he was good, he was very very good, and
>when he was bad, he was awful.
>
>David G. Story
>President
>Big Apple

        Yours truly,
        Daniel L. Schwartz,
        Electrical Engineer.

        Dan's Macintosh Consulting
        Suite 1306
        1840 Frontage Road
        Cherry Hill, NJ 08034-2205

        609-795-8965

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