Re: [WinMac] Advice request: Dual platform Ethernet schools

Dan Schwartz(expresso[at]snip.net)
Mon, 07 Dec 1998 11:14:48 -0500

        Dear Gary,

        A) Despite the things you may be reading, NT's Services for Macintosh is
actually quite good... Just be sure the server is running Service Pack 4
(SP4) to fix the jumping icon problem;

        B) NT is actually quite easy to administer: I had no problem training my
customers who used AppleShare Server 4.0.2 and 4.2.2 to learn to administer
NT/S 3.51 & NT/S 4.0;

        C) There ARE 100Base-TX ethernet cards for the 5260's you manage: You'll
need to use the LC-compatible PDS slot on the motherboard. HOWEVER, I
recommend sticking with 10Base-T for those segments;

        D) You can set up one machine with Apple Internet Router 3.0.1 to route
LocalTalk segments to ethernet segments. Any Mac will suffice for this
duty: However I prefer to use a Quadra with System 7.1/System Update 3, or
System 7.5.1... Both using AppleTalk 58.1.5, which is available on the
NSI-ZM 1.5.1 installer. Try not to use a PowerPC and/or Open Transport,
because in both cases Apple Internet Router 3.0.1 will run in 68020
emulation and/or Open Transport's AppleTalk emulation;

        E) If you use A.I.R 3.0.1, you can address both serial ports to segment
the LocalTalk traffic into 2 separate zones. This will reduce packet
collisions accordingly. You could use the Printer port for the Mac Classics
lab and the Modem port for the Mac Plus lab;

        F) For the PC's, you'll want to use PCI NIC's... This will help hold down
the number of interrupts since one ISA interrupt = 4 PCI interrupts... And
there will be a(n) NIC interrupt generated for each packet, regardless of
whether the packet is destined for that machine or not;

        G) Personally, I prefer intel's EtherExpress Pro/100+ NIC's for intel-only
shops (about USD $53 via <http://www.pricewatch.com>, since they use the
fewest CPU cycles (lowest CPU overhead), especially important for 486's
that have PCI slots.

        For cross-platform shops, I prefer the Asante 10/100 PCI cards because
they have drivers not only for Macs and x86 machines, but also for
NT/Alpha's -- With built-in ARC ("BIOS") support for the card since the
Asante NICs use the DEC 21140 chipset;

        H) Lastly, I think your opinion of AppleShare IP 6.x is over-rated,
especially since it runs the risk of becoming "Steveified." NT4 has a
planned upgrade path through Windows 2000 (formerly NT5); and M$ has
committed over a *billion* dollars to its development. ASIP is just an
add-on that gets limited support... NT is M$' flagship product series that
Bill Gates is betting his company on.

        It's your choice... You could very well end up in a dead end with ASIP
6.x... Just ask the hundreds of Apple Network Server 500 and 700 owners who
were left hanging ("Steveified") with AIX 4.1.4.1...

        [.SIG below]

At 12:53 AM 12/7/98 -0800, you wrote:
>Lengthy post with questions at end...
>
>I would appreciate advice from anyone who manages or works in a Wintel -
>Mac, Ethernet environment, especially at the secondary school level, and
>especially those who have had experience setting up both Windows NT and
>AppleShareIP 6.0 or 6.1 servers for a school-wide WAN.
>
>My situation:
>
>I am a math teacher who has kept the Mac side of our school (1000 students
>in grades 8 to 12) together by helping individual teachers with the
>approximately 21 standalone Macs in the school and also by setting up and
>maintaining our MacLab LANs of 23 Mac 5260's, two mini-labs of 5 Classics
>each, and one mini-lab of 10 MacPluses, all running Waterloo MacJanet
>server software over Localtalk networks using PhoneNet connectors.
>
>The school also has 28 Wintels of varying vintages from 486's to Pentiums
>as standalones, and 3 NT LANs of 12, 9, and 27 machines, respectively,
>currently running 10Bt Ethernet. These labs are maintained by a physics
>teacher in the school, who also teaches a block of Computer Science in the
>Pentium lab.
>
>I have no desire to learn NT and he has no desire to learn the Mac OS. Our
>school technology committee has decided that it would be a good idea if we
>had the whole school networked on 100Bt Ethernet so that any student could
>use any machine after accepting our AUP and obtaining an account. (I know
>our 5260's can only be upgraded to 10Bt and I'll need a bridge for the
>Classic and MacPlus labs.) We both think it a good idea too but are
>concerned that we already have fulltime jobs and we maintain the existing
>facilities so far out of the goodness of our hearts. A school-wide WAN is a
>much bigger kettle of fish, however.
>
>He is concerned that the network be properly planned and would like the IT
>department of our district to use us as a template for future WANS in our
>district (only one other school out of 50 in the district has a school-wide
>network). Our IT department has recently decreed that all school offices
>shall be Wintel, wired to the central admin office via NT (this network
>will be separate from the "educational" network in each school). I am
>somewhat dubious of the concommittant growth in number of personnel that
>will be required to maintain this "office" network, to say nothing of the
>loss of productivity in offices as all the admin people are required to
>switch platforms from what is now largely a Mac-oriented workforce. Be that
>as it may, I hope to preserve the place of Macs in the "educational"
>network, especially with the advent of the iMac and all the incredibly
>powerful copper-based chips soon to be in the G4's.
>
>I fear that the "solution" that the IT department may come up with for our
>school is to bang in one big NT server for our school-wide network and let
>the Macs run off NT's "Services for Macintosh" (SFM). I can see nothing but
>grief from this as I know how many hours my colleague has put in trying to
>set NT up in the first place as well as trying to troubleshoot it on an
>ongoing basis. He is fearful of setting up such a server himself and wants
>the IT people to do it. I have also read on these mailing lists that NT's
>SFM is not so hot.
>
>I have had a two day workshop on AppleShareIP from Apple Canada last summer
>and have no fear of setting up the whole Mac side of the school myself (and
>hooking the Wintel machines in using SMB). I imagine that I could maintain
>the network with a bit of clerical assistance. The school district is just
>now getting around to providing technical assistance to schools on a
>consistent basis. Our school will be in a "pod" of four - three elementary
>schools and us (the elementary schools are almost exclusively Macs). We
>will receive a 0.2 FTE (full time equivalent) assistant to help us (no
>guarantees as to capability, whether Mac or Microsoft Certified Systems
>Engineer).
>
>I am inclined to think the best approach for our school is to run two
>servers, one NT and one AppleShareIP 6.1 (thus re-deploying five of the
>seven servers we currently use to client status), perhaps each with a RAID
>HD system. The Macs could primarily use the AppleShare server and the
>Wintels, the NT server, but if we mirrored critical pieces of software on
>each server we would still be in business if one goes down. We have in mind
>putting most-frequently-used software on each client HD and reserving the
>servers for student files and less-used software. Our NT labs are currently
>used for Career Resources (one 28.8 modem proxied into 7 Wintels),
>Keyboarding, and various Information Technology courses. The Mac labs are
>used for word processing, Pagemaker and PhotoShop yearbook production,
>MiniCad 7 drafting classes, and delivering Math software.
>
>So...
>
>1. Am I nuts?
>
>2. Can two "independent" WANs be run over the same wires with no problems?
>
>3. What problems do you see/have you seen in similar situations?
>
>4. We stand a good chance of getting a cable modem into the school once we
>are fully networked. Which server should it pass through? Can it pass
>through both?
>
>4. If our IT department lays a heavy command down to submit to the Borg,
>should I roll over and play dead until retirement (6 years)?
>
>5. Is my good opinion of AppleShareIP unwarranted?
>
>6. Are my fears of NT unfounded?
>
>Apologies for the lengthy post, but this is very uncharted territory for us
>and I would rather you know as much of our full situation as possible so
>that if you choose to reply, you will not have wasted your bandwidth and
>time on any misconceptions.
>
>To spare everyone else the agony of my personal melodrama, you could reply
>off the list and I will compile a digest of the best advice I get and then
>post it.
>
>Thanks for listening.
>
>TIA,
>

>----------------------------------------------------------------
>Gary Zak
>Victoria, BC
>gzak@sd61.bc.ca
>
>Yesterday is history, tomorrow is mystery, but today
>is God's gift. That's why they call it the "present".
>----------------------------------------------------------------

        Yours truly,
        Daniel L. Schwartz,
        Electrical Engineer.

        Dan's Macintosh Consulting
        Suite 1306
        1840 Frontage Road
        Cherry Hill, NJ 08034-2205

        609-795-8965

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