[WinMac] Re: FW: Good NT Book; Re: Choice of AppleShare IP 6.0 vs. NT
Dan Schwartz(expresso[at]snip.net)
Tue, 13 Oct 1998 15:27:59 -0400
Dear Omar, and everyone else:
First off, thank you for the kind comments... It really made my afternoon!
I made a slight error in my original note: The book "Optimizing Windows
NT" [ISBN 0-7645-3110-7] was authored by Sean K. Daily... Kirk Erichsen
(whom I cited as the author) was a major co-author, though.
I'll reply to some of this publicly [inline for clarity]; and more will be
off the list in private correspondence.
At 12:58 PM 10/13/98 -0400, you wrote:
> Dear Mr. Schwartz,
>
> Let me first say -for the record- that I am absolutely impressed with
> your reply. It is uncommon to get a calm, balanced and objective
> response when it comes to comparative analysis (particularly in
> regards to Religion, Politics and Computer Platforms).
>
> I really appreciate that you're not only expressing your views and
> fundamenting your arguments with references, but also including URL's
> for easy verification and referral. Very thoughtfull of you, indeed.
>
> My next web-surfing session will undoubtedly include those Alpha
> Clones sites you mentioned. My concern would be quality of components
> and support from the vendors, since the prices you mention are
> certainly eye-opening.
Yes: buying a full-blown 533 mHz NT workstation for $1795 is mind-blowing.
Also, now that "barebones" 533 mHz machines can be had for $775 from DCG
<http://www.dcginc.com>; as well as Merced already 2 1/2 years late,
there's not much of an excuse for continuing down the 32 bit x86 path.
"Titanic" would have never made it to the Oscar Awards without help from a
bank of 200 Alpha's, either. [About half were running NT4 and the other
half *nix... All from Carrera.]
[more below]
> For instance, my HP Netservers are replaced within 24hours if they're
> unable to fix the hardware problem on-site (usually with a loaner that
> keeps my network running while my server is being repaired). Apple has
> the same kind of deal, as well as IBM and Compaq.
And the service will get even better from Compaq: The main reason for them
buying DIGITAL -- A 40 year player in the computer industry -- was to
acquire their service network.
> Have you had any experiences with any of those Alpha Clones vendors?
Yes: DCG is excellent as a dealer... And they are the low-cost Alpha
cloner (like Power Computing). By reputation, Aspen and Carrera are also
quite good, as is DEC themselves.
>
> As far as tweking the registry and using the "last known good
> configuration," as well as multiple reboots during installation, all
> those are perfect examples of why I would like to move away from NT.
> It's just too time consuming compared to Netware or AppleShare, and
> precisely those elements characteristic of Windows NT (whether 3.5 or
> 4.0) are what increases the TCO of such platform (IMO).
Yes, the multiple reboots are a bit of a pain when installing NT... And
don't forget another reboot after installing SP3.
However, when setting up multiple machines (like I'm doing right now with
three Compaq DeskPro 6000's for a customer ($799 MacWarehouse special)!),
you can set up one machine as a "reference," install and configure the OS,
then clone the drives and run a SID changer.
And guess what? I'll be cloning the SCSI drives on my trusty Quadra 650! :)
>
> What additional benefits are there in NT that could justify dedicating
> so much time and so much investment in hardware? I have been running
> NT 4.0 for almost a year and frankly, I am not impressed. Am I missing
> something?
Possibly: If you are getting BSOD's as you mentioned previously, then it
might be one of several things... And often these are also related to
performance bottlenecks.
1) Make sure your drivers are up to date: Go to each vendors site (such as
<http://www.adaptec.com>, <http://www.symbios.com>, <http://www.qlc.com>,
<http://www.diamondmm.com>, <http://www.matrox.com>,
<http://www.hp.com>,...) and download the latest driver packs; and also
look at the Release Notes & Read-Me's. Some of the manufacturers (notably
H-P and Diamond Multimedia) also have eMail notification when a new driver
is released -- A service I exploit.
[This advice is actually quite generic: I also keep tabs on key MacOS
software publishers for patches & updates from <http://www.connectix.com>,
<http://www.aladdinsys.com>, <http://www.adobe.com>, and
<http://www.quark.com>. The reason for this is that certain Extensions dig
down pretty deep into the MacOS, so that anytime the MacOS sneezes, ATM,
Stuffit Deluxe, and RAMDoubler need to be updated. In addition, I keep an
eye on Ric Ford's column at <http://www.macintouch.com>.]
2) Try to shut down extraneous Services: H-P's proprietary Services can be
a bit flaky, for example. Another example is to set certain Services to
"Manual" so that they only start when called upon. My philosophy for the
MacOS (as well as for NT) is to run with the minimum number of Extensions
(Services) possible -- Lean and Mean is my watchword;
3) Divide and Conquer: With hardware so inexpensive, it sometimes pays to
divide the load amongst several smaller machines. For example, set up a
spare desktop computer as your PDC, and then demote your other servers to
BDC's... Or even standalone status;
4) Don't be a N.E.R.D.: "No Emergency Repair Disk;"
5) Add the DWORD:
"HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\FileSystem\NtfsDisableLastAcces
sUpdate" (no quotes) and set the DWORD value to 1. This will tremendously
speed up all disk access (as long as you don't need Security Auditing).
This is documented in both Sean Daily's "Optimizing Windows NT" book as
well as on this very WinMac site at <http://www.macwindows.com/servtips.html>;
6) Buy more RAM... It's cheaper than therapy! :)
> You are right in pointing out the superior underlying technology of NT
> as compared to the MacOS, but if all I wanted was a better kernel I
> would migrate to UNIX (Solaris, SCO or even Linux). By the way, are
> you familiar with that option?
Yes: There are four operating systems that run nicely on the Alpha
platform: Windows NT, OpenVMS, DIGITAL UNIX (64 bit), and Linux (64 bit).
In addition NT5 will be partially 64 bit for the Alpha ONLY.
I toyed around with Western Electric Unix on a PDP-11/45 in college almost
20 years ago; but if I had to go upwards from NT I would strongly consider
OpenVMS first. Some of the utilities for NT (such as Diskeeper) actually
originated in the OpenVMS arena and were then migrated to NT.
>
> Maybe you can provide me with an Alpha server with NT or Solaris at a
> good price point? Tech support by e-mail and fax is OK as long as is
> expedite. Perhaps you would like to help us change PC's for Macs in
> our remote offices in the future? (3 to 6 months) I see that you are a
> Mac consultat, at least that's what your signature says (though your
> posts seem to originate more from an NT consultant than a Macintosh
> one).
Actually, last year I started with NT, and my business was about 90% MacOS
and 10% Windows NT. This year, it's already over 50% NT and climbing. I
specialize in service to mixed platform (MacOS/NT) shops; and as a general
rule I avoid Windoze 95 like the plague!
[Balance responded to privately]
>
> Lastly, I would appreciate if you could give me any input on
> AppleShare IP 6.0 serving PC and Mac clients using a Faircom
> C-tree-based application in a network of 50 nodes.
I generally don't speculate too much: I'm not familiar with your
particular application. If you can fill me in privately, I'll research it
for you.
>
> Again, thank you so much for your time and knowledge.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Omar Chávez
> Technical Services Director
> *********************************************************
> Flite Line Equipment Corp.
> Corporate Headquarters
> 1100 NW 163rd Drive
> Miami, FL 33169 * USA
> Tel (305) 626-0004 * Fax (305) 626-0566 * OmarChavez@fliteline.usa.com
> --Los Angeles--Chicago--San Francisco--Washington DC--Honolulu--Miami-
> *********************************************************
>
>
> ----------
> From: Dan Schwartz
> Sent: Monday, October 12, 1998 2:08 PM
> To: The Windows-MacOS cooperation list
> Cc: OmarChavez@fliteline.usa.com
> Subject: Good NT Book; Re: Choice of AppleShare IP 6.0 vs. NT
>
>
> Dear Mr. Chávez:
>
> Four salient points:
>
> 1) You can buy very nice 533 mHz Alpha clones from DCG for well
> under $2,000.
> <http://www.dcginc.com>. Also, Enorex, DeskStation, Microway,
> Carrera, and
> Aspen make nice Alpha clones...
>
> Please click on <http://www.alphant.com> for more info on the
> purchasing,
> care, and feeding of Alpha's running NT. You'll be glad you did
>
> -> Now, where did you go, Power Computing, when we need you?
>
> 2) If you are getting BSOD's (Blue Screen of Death) in NT, they
> can
> *usually* be quickly solved by using the "Last Known Good
> Configuration."
> In addition, I borrowed a trick from Conflict Catcher: I create a
> "Minimal
> Services" Hardware Profile (startup configuration), including not
> starting
> the Networking Services;
>
> 3) Along these same lines, get a copy of Kirk Erichsen's
> "Optimizing
> Windows NT" [ISBN 0-7645-3110-7] The recovery & repair techniques on
> pages
> 743-757 is worth the (AMAZON.COM mail order) price of $39.95 alone
>
> 4) I somewhat agree with the assessment about NT's Mac print
> spooler to be
> somewhat troublesome. BUT:
> A) If you are printing to a raster printer, then you DO need to
> be a bit
> more careful in the spooler setup, since you are using a LaserWriter 8
> driver to send a PostScript® file to the NT spooler to be RIP'ed;
> B) This is one area where the MacOS excels: If you have
> PostScript
> printers, just print to these machines directly. You don't need to
> spool
> through NT (in most cases), since Print Monitor DOES do a very nice
> job. I
> always give credit when credit is due, and MacOS printing has ALWAYS
> been
> its strong suit.
>
> [More comments inline]
>
> At 11:12 AM 10/12/98 -0400, Omar Chávez wrote:
> >
> >> NT's Express Setup is actually easier than navigating through
> >> MacOS
> >> 8.1's arcane installation process.
> >>
> >> I disagree with that. For most people APIP is a lot easier to setup
> >> than NT. Any Macintosh user with Intermediate knowledge of the OS
> is
> >> able to install APIP, whereas to install NT you need at the very
> least
> >> a PowerUser, more likely a Network Engineer (MCSE).
>
> Surprisingly, no. I found the learning curve/changeover from
> AppleShare
> 4.0.2 & 4.2.2, and Apple Internet Router 3.0.1 to NT/S 3.51 (as well
> as
> NT/S 4.0) to be surprisingly easy. Yes, M$ "knocked off" most of the
> MacOS
> GUI... But the underlying kernel is much more robust than the MacOS
> 8.x. If
> you have a single NIC *AND* everything inside is on the HCL, then you
> can
> just about hit "Enter" for all the defaults... Except you need to
> pause
> during the Networking installation to add Services for Macintosh.
> Reboot,
> then apply SP3 & SFM hotfix, and all will be fine.
>
>
> >>
> >> What part of 600 mHz don't you understand?
> >> And you tell me that an Alpha 600 is in the same price range as an
> >> AWS9600? I really doubt it. I think that the original poster was
> >> referring to Workgroup Servers, not Enterprise Servers. In
> workgroup
> >> servers with a price point of less than $6,000.00 the AWS gives you
> >> more bung for the buck IMHO.
> ^^^^
> You mean "bang"... I hope :)
>
> Yes; but at $2000 a 533 mHz NT Server is still a better buy.
> >>
> >> Lastly, you can run NT/Server as a workstation OS with the Server
> >> services
> >> in the background. If an app crashes, it simply gets flushed and
> >> doesn't
> >> bring down the whole machine. Try running Photoshop simultaneously
> >> with ANY
> >> version of AppleShare and watch what happens
> >> I would say that any network comprised of more than 10 nodes
> DEMANDS a
> >> dedicated server.
>
> It depends on what the server is doing. If it is being used as a
> simple
> file server, then about 10 connected users is about right. BUT, it all
> depends on what apps the clients are using; and what software the
> server
> local user is running.
>
> >>
> >> Also, what ever happened to the lifetime toll-free tech support
> from
> >> Apple's Business Systems Division
> >> Apple still offers a much better deal in Tech support than
> Microsoft.
> >>
> >> My current network is NT, but I am seriously considering moving to
> >> ASIP6. NT is stable and fast most of the time, but when you start
> to
> >> get a "blue screen of death" you better start verifying your bank's
> >> account, since its going to cost you dearly in terms of time and
> >> money.
>
> True to a point. But if you follow the HCL's, and the KISS
> principle with
> NT, then BSOD's just don't occur. Shutting down extraneous services
> helps
> enhance stability quite a bit. Also, having enough RAM and tweaking
> the
> Registry a bit also helps stability as well as speed.
>
> Let's try to work together to solve the problems you *are*
> having: More
> likely than not it's just a 3rd party driver problem.
>
> >>
> >> Omar Chávez
> >> Technical Services Director
> >> *********************************************************
> >> Flite Line Equipment Corp.
> >> Corporate Headquarters
> >> 1100 NW 163rd Drive
> >> Miami, FL 33169 * USA
> >> Tel (305) 626-0004 * Fax (305) 626-0566 *
> OmarChavez@fliteline.usa.com
> >> --Los Angeles--Chicago--San Francisco--Washington
> DC--Honolulu--Miami-
> >> *********************************************************
Yours truly,
Daniel L. Schwartz,
Electrical Engineer.
Dan's Macintosh Consulting
Suite 1306
1840 Frontage Road
Cherry Hill, NJ 08034-2205
609-795-8965
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