[WinMac] Open Firmware "console" is non-standard [WAS:Re: Re: Memory for different G3/G4s similar?]

Daniel L. Schwartz(expresso[at]snip.net)
Mon, 22 Nov 1999 11:31:50 -0500

        Dear Glen,

        Yes, I am aware of the so-called "Open Firmware" console.

        HOWEVER, you omitted a crucial piece when you quoted my original post,
which I will repeat:

>>>>

<excerpt>

-> BUT, with any PCI Option Card hardware RAID controller to be ported to
the PCI Mac, numerous hurdles need to be overcome. Most importantly is
the lack of x86 emulation needed for most every PCI hardware RAID
controller for low level setup. [You see this on x86 boxes when it'll say
"Hit <<Ctrl-A> to enter Setup."] This feature - BIOS emulation - is
included on *almost* every RISC platform (through AlphaBIOS or equivalent
ARC (Advanced RISC Consortium) , for example) except one: The beloved,
non-standard PCI PowerPC Mac.

        Because there is no ARC console on the PCI Power Mac, setting up a
complicated RAID controller will require not only new drivers - Which in
itself is crazy proposition due to the ever-changing MacOS breaking
drivers with almost every iteration - need to be written, but also a
completely built-from-scratch GUI application to set up and control the
array.

        [There IS an alternative, but many Mac-only users would have trouble
swallowing this: Set up the array on a PC, then move everything - PCI
card and disk drives - to a PCI Mac. Then, it would present itself as a
single logical drive, ready to be partitioned and initialized to HFS or
HFS+. Even a basic 486 with PCI slots, BIOS support for PCI bridging (PCI
2.0 spec) and 4 MB of RAM & video card would suffice for this duty, since
it's only used for BIOS setup and flash upgrades from floppy - No hard
drive needed.]

</excerpt><<<<<<<<

        The crucial information you omit is that the Open Firmware "console"
does *not* adhere to the Advanced RISC Consortium standards. Yes, it will
boot some *nix' - But it does *not* (AFAIK) provide 16 bit x86 emulation
as the ARC standards call for.

        That is why RAID cards - And many other PCI Option Cards, for that
matter - provide support for Sparc, non-Mac PowerPC, MIPS, Alpha (with
ARC replaced by AlphaBIOS for later machines), and so forth.

        It's this *total* lack of adherence to industry standards that leaves
PowerPC PCI Mac owners holding the bag... Again. [Not to mention the
bald-faced lie about MacOS X running on 603 & 604 series PCI Power Macs,
but that's a whole different rant!]

        In any case, just because there's a "console" doesn't mean it's an
industry standard ARC console...

        Oh, and by the way, the keystrokes are Command-Option-O-F...

        Cheers!

        Dan

At 09:28 AM 11/22/99 -0600, you wrote:

>"Daniel L. Schwartz" <<expresso@snip.net>:

>

>> Because there is no ARC console on the PCI Power Mac, setting
up a

>> complicated RAID controller will require not only new drivers - Which
in

>> itself is crazy proposition due to the ever-changing MacOS breaking
drivers

>> with almost every iteration - need to be written, but also a
completely

>> built-from-scratch GUI application to set up and control the array.

>

>Recent Power Macs DO have a console mode environment -- OpenFirmware.
I

>don't recall offhand the exact keystrokes to get into it (I believe
that

>I found it in a TIL article), but I once booted my iMac into it. It

>provides a minimalist command line environment which is very similar
to

>the Alpha SRM environment, but based upon Forth, a very compact,

>flexible, and portable programming language.

>

>Glen

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This archive was generated by hypermail 2.0b2 on Mon Nov 22 1999 - 09:25:08 PST