Re: [WinMac] Re: Experiences with Print Manager Plus?
Bruce Johnson(johnson[at]Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU)
Wed, 18 Aug 1999 17:23:46 -0500
WinMac Digest #394 - Wednesday, August 18, 1999
RE: [WinMac] Win NT sbs 4.5 and the mac
by "Omar Chávez" <OmarChavez@fliteline.usa.com>
Experiences with Print Manager Plus?
by "Bruce Johnson" <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU>
Re: Experiences with Print Manager Plus?
by "Daniel L. Schwartz" <expresso@snip.net>
Re: [WinMac] Re: Experiences with Print Manager Plus?
by "Tim Scoff" <tscoff@pitt.edu>
Re: Experiences with Print Manager Plus?
by "Daniel L. Schwartz" <expresso@snip.net>
Re: [WinMac] Re: Experiences with Print Manager Plus?
by "Bruce Johnson" <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: RE: [WinMac] Win NT sbs 4.5 and the mac
From: Omar =?iso-8859-1?Q?Chávez?= <OmarChavez@fliteline.usa.com>
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 21:26:29 -0500
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Dear Leonard,
I'm sure there is a Mac client for InocuLan. I'm using it ;-)
From the product manual:
"For complete client/server network protection, Cheyenne offers the
Cheyenne AntiVirus Client Pack for your Windows NT, Windows 95,
Windows 3.1, DOS and Macintosh client workstations.
Like InocuLAN, Cheyenne AntiVirus provides continuous real-time
protection for any file that is accessed, saved, downloaded or
executed in any way. It also protects memory, the boot sector and
provides a variety of features such as scheduled scanning and
critical disk backups in case of a disaster."
More info can be found at
<http://www.cheyenne.com/security>http://www.cheyenne.com/security
(I'm in no way related to Cheyenne as anything else but a satisfied
Mac-loving customer)
Oh, and I totally agree with you in regards to IPNet Router. Very
good product and affordable too.
Omar Chávez
Director of Technical Services
*********************************************************
Flite Line Equipment Corp.
Corporate Headquarters
1100 NW 163rd Drive
Miami, FL 33169 USA
Tel (305) 626-0004 Fax (305) 626-0566 www.flitelineUSA.com
*********************************************************
----------
From: Leonard Rosenthol
Sent: Monday, August 16, 1999 10:47 AM
Subject: RE: [WinMac] Win NT sbs 4.5 and the mac
At 9:22 AM -0500 8/16/99, Omar Chávez wrote:
>1) For Crossplatform Internet access in a network (using only one
>modem and one ISP account for up to 50 computers) the way to go
>(easiest, least expensive, fastest and more reliable) is Sygate from
>Acer (if the Gateway is to be installed on a PC) or Vicom (if the
>gateway will sit on a Mac).
Another option on the Mac side, that (IMHO) is a better
product is IPNetRouter (<<http://www.sustworks.com>http://www.sustworks.com>).
>4) There is an antivirus solution for your complete network:
>InocuLan from Cheyenne/CA (runs on the NT server with client
>adapters for DOS, all flavors of Windows & the Mac OS).
>
Are you SURE they have a Mac client? Because AFAIK they
aren't part of the Mac "anti-virus consortium", and that would be
bad...
Subject: Experiences with Print Manager Plus?
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU>
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 14:14:08 -0500
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We're looking for something to do accounting on our network printers, as
we've gotten two (expensive) new Xerox printer/copiers and the business
manager wants to recover costs in a fair fashion.
Xeroxes solution only worked with their printers, only on Wintel
systems, and besides it was ungodly expensive.
We've found a program called Print Manager Plus
(http://www.printmanagerplus.com)that _claims_ to support _everything_,
Mac, Unix, Windows, any printer so long as the printing goes through the
NT printer queue.
It's also relatively cheap and licensed by the server (the others are on
a per user basis) so we would only need to buy one copy.
Frankly it sounds too good to be true...does anyone have any experience
with this software?
--
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group
Subject: Re: Experiences with Print Manager Plus?
From: "Daniel L. Schwartz" <expresso@snip.net>
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 14:50:26 -0500
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This issue goes back almost 20 years, with Xerox introducing mechanical
"copier key" counters so that the bean counters could "account" for copies
made.
Guess what?
It cost more to round up the keys, record the numbers, and bill the
appropriate departments than it did to run the copiers themselves!
Yes, these Xerox printer/copier machines may cost a lot up
front; but the
"per print" cost is extremely low due to the better (hence more expensive)
hardware.
My thumbnail analysis:
1) The print accounting package only measures prints through the NT
spooler, and not copies from the platen itself;
2) Just "let it fly" and average out the cost among the
departments that
use these devices on a monthly or quarterly basis. This way, it simply
becomes a line item in everyone's budget... It can be on a student
enrollment basis, for example. The key is to make it a *fixed* cost, but a
cost that varies by the quarter (or semester).
Just remember one key point: As you expand outward the
budget, eventually
it encompasses everything... Just don't get bogged down in administrivia
trying to spend dollars chasing down pennies...
Just my own two pennies worth,
Dan
At 02:14 PM 8/18/99 -0500, you wrote:
>We're looking for something to do accounting on our network printers, as
>we've gotten two (expensive) new Xerox printer/copiers and the business
>manager wants to recover costs in a fair fashion.
>
>Xeroxes solution only worked with their printers, only on Wintel
>systems, and besides it was ungodly expensive.
>
>We've found a program called Print Manager Plus
>(http://www.printmanagerplus.com)that _claims_ to support _everything_,
>Mac, Unix, Windows, any printer so long as the printing goes through the
>NT printer queue.
>
>It's also relatively cheap and licensed by the server (the others are on
>a per user basis) so we would only need to buy one copy.
>
>Frankly it sounds too good to be true...does anyone have any experience
>with this software?
>
>--
>Bruce Johnson
>University of Arizona
>College of Pharmacy
>Information Technology Group
Subject: Re: [WinMac] Re: Experiences with Print Manager Plus?
From: Tim Scoff <tscoff@pitt.edu>
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 15:12:49 -0500
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Another point to remember when you're investigating Print Quota
software for NT is it's very easy to bypass NT's print queues.
The only method of printing that NT supports which can lock out a
printer so that everything has to go through the server which I've found it
AppleTalk. The IP and DLC protocols both accept incoming print jobs from
anyone. I administer several printers at work and I am not interested in
doing any type of print quotas because I know how to find the IP address
(the only protocol which I'm allowed to use....) of the printers quickly
and easily as a guest on the network. With the IP address I can print
directly to the printer from anywhere in the world. I'm trying to figure
out how to block myself from being able to print from my home computer to
my computers at work and I can not figure out how to do it. Remember, I'm
required to give every one of them a published IP address and our
networking department does not have any firewalls blocking IP traffic.
Print Quotas don't work unless you can make it impossible to print to
the printer except by going through the server's print queue. The only way
I've found with NT Server to do that is use AppleTalk on the server to
communicate with the printers.
--On Wednesday, August 18, 1999, 2:50 PM -0500 "Daniel L. Schwartz"
<expresso@snip.net> wrote:
>
> This issue goes back almost 20 years, with Xerox introducing
>mechanical
> "copier key" counters so that the bean counters could "account" for copies
> made.
>
> Guess what?
>
> It cost more to round up the keys, record the numbers, and bill the
> appropriate departments than it did to run the copiers themselves!
>
[snip]
Tim Scoff
casper@nb.net
"Trust the computer industry to shorten "Year 2000" to Y2K. It was this
kind of thinking that caused the problem in the first place."
Subject: Re: Experiences with Print Manager Plus?
From: "Daniel L. Schwartz" <expresso@snip.net>
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 17:23:40 -0500
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"
See below
At 03:12 PM 8/18/99 -0500, Tim wrote:
> Another point to remember when you're investigating Print Quota
>software for NT is it's very easy to bypass NT's print queues.
>
> The only method of printing that NT supports which can lock out a
>printer so that everything has to go through the server which I've found it
>AppleTalk. The IP and DLC protocols both accept incoming print jobs from
>anyone. I administer several printers at work and I am not interested in
>doing any type of print quotas because I know how to find the IP address
>(the only protocol which I'm allowed to use....) of the printers quickly
>and easily as a guest on the network. With the IP address I can print
>directly to the printer from anywhere in the world. I'm trying to figure
>out how to block myself from being able to print from my home computer to
>my computers at work and I can not figure out how to do it. Remember, I'm
>required to give every one of them a published IP address and our
>networking department does not have any firewalls blocking IP traffic.
>
> Print Quotas don't work unless you can make it impossible to print to
>the printer except by going through the server's print queue. The only way
>I've found with NT Server to do that is use AppleTalk on the server to
>communicate with the printers.
Or to hook the printer directly up to the NT server via a
parallel cable,
taking the printer itself off the LAN/MAN/WAN... Then NT's security can go
to work, as can print accounting software. BUT, this requires the
printer(s) to be within about 25 cable feet (or so) of the NT spooler for
the parallel cable connection to work.
The upside to all this is that spooling is a low CPU utilization task,
meaning that if you have a dedicated NT box performing this duty then it
can be something like a rePentium 120 with multiple parallel ports...
Cheers, and copyright,
Dan
Subject: Re: [WinMac] Re: Experiences with Print Manager Plus?
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU>
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 17:23:46 -0500
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Tim Scoff wrote:
>
> Another point to remember when you're investigating Print Quota
> software for NT is it's very easy to bypass NT's print queues.
True, but not with our user base :-/
> Print Quotas don't work unless you can make it impossible to print to
> the printer except by going through the server's print queue.
We're not quota-ing people...people can print as much as they want, they
just have to pay for it, just like they do for copying right now.
Well, for one thing, we're not trying to block all printing to the
printers, just count the _majority_ of the the usage. My boss just
doesn't want to charge a department doing 10% of the printing 25% of the
costs, or vice versa.
Our users don't have any problem with punching in account numbers to
use the things as copiers, so there'll not be much resistance to doing
that for printing as well. If we install the software and set everyone
up, they'll take the path of least resistance and use our system.
For another we're on friendly terms with everyone here, so it's not like
they're going to be running around trying to figure out how to get
around any quotas. Many of our faculty are cheap, but they're not _that_
cheap!
Also, they pay for it one way or another...if they're not paying for it
in up front costs, it comes from their overhead. Paying for it up front
gives them an illusion of controlling their money ;-)
Finally, I haven't much choice in whether or not we implement something
like this. This is ordered from On High. ;-)
--
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group
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