RE: [WinMac] Win NT sbs 4.5 and the mac
Lic.
Fri, 13 Aug 1999 15:14:47 -0500
WinMac Digest #389 - Friday, August 13, 1999
best way win can print to LaserWriter 16/600?
by "Michael Bartosh" <bartosh@tamu.edu>
Re: [WinMac] best way win can print to LaserWriter 16/600?
by "Tim Scoff" <casper@nb.net>
Re: [WinMac] best way win can print to LaserWriter 16/600?
by "Alan Cairns" <support@uweb.engr.washington.edu>
Re: [WinMac] best way win can print to LaserWriter 16/600?
by "Michael Bartosh" <bartosh@tamu.edu>
Win NT sbs 4.5 and the mac
by "Freddf" <freddf@snet.net>
WinMac Digest #388 - 08/12/99
by "Paulo Licio de Geus" <paulo@dcc.unicamp.br>
Re: best way win can print to LaserWriter 16/600?
by "Daniel L. Schwartz" <expresso@snip.net>
RE: [WinMac] Postscript vs TrueType fonts
by "John Nurick" <jnurick@lrconsulting.co.uk>
RE: [WinMac] Win NT sbs 4.5 and the mac
by "John Nurick" <jnurick@lrconsulting.co.uk>
[WinMac] Re: best way win can print to LaserWriter 16/600?
by "Michael Bartosh" <bartosh@tamu.edu>
Re: [WinMac] Re: best way win can print to LaserWriter 16/600?
by "Bruce Johnson" <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU>
Re: [WinMac] Re: best way win can print to LaserWriter 16/600?
by "Leonard Rosenthol" <leonardr@lazerware.com>
Re: [WinMac] Re: best way win can print to LaserWriter 16/600?
by "Bruce Johnson" <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU>
RE: [WinMac] Win NT sbs 4.5 and the mac
by "Lic. José Miguel León Franco " <josemiguel@uriartetalaver
Subject: best way win can print to LaserWriter 16/600?
From: Michael Bartosh <bartosh@tamu.edu>
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 22:07:33 -0500
Mime-Version: 1.0
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What's the best way to get our win 98 clients to print to this
printer? I have never worked in an environment where lpr was not a
network printer option (was in nt as far as I remember).
So we were thinking putting Dave onto a Mac that uses the Appletalk
que, then using Dave to export it as an SMB printer. Is there a
cheaper option?
-mab
Subject: Re: [WinMac] best way win can print to LaserWriter 16/600?
From: Tim Scoff <casper@nb.net>
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 22:31:54 -0500
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"
Windows 98 has an LPR client, but I forget the details of how it works.
The other option is share the printer from a NT computer.
Maybe the Apple
driver for 9x for the printer will allow you to print to it over a network,
but I think that the driver was for local printing through a parallel port
only.
--On Thu, Aug 12, 1999 10:07 PM -0500 Michael Bartosh <bartosh@tamu.edu>
wrote:r
> What's the best way to get our win 98 clients to print to this
> printer? I have never worked in an environment where lpr was not a
> network printer option (was in nt as far as I remember).
>
> So we were thinking putting Dave onto a Mac that uses the Appletalk
> que, then using Dave to export it as an SMB printer. Is there a
> cheaper option?
Tim Scoff
tscoff+@pitt.edu
(412) 648-1747
Subject: Re: [WinMac] best way win can print to LaserWriter 16/600?
From: Alan Cairns <support@uweb.engr.washington.edu>
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 22:32:04 -0500
Mime-Version: 1.0
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>What's the best way to get our win 98 clients to print to this
>printer? I have never worked in an environment where lpr was not a
>network printer option (was in nt as far as I remember).
>
http://www.utexas.edu/academic/otl/software/lpr/
Subject: Re: [WinMac] best way win can print to LaserWriter 16/600?
From: Michael Bartosh <bartosh@tamu.edu>
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 23:51:39 -0500
Mime-Version: 1.0
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> Windows 98 has an LPR client, but I forget the details of how it works.
Built into the OS? Perhaps this machine is running 95 then. I will
have to stop by and look at it (have not seen the machine yet)
> The other option is share the printer from a NT computer.
>Maybe the Apple
No nt in the Journalism Dept at TAMU, thank you.
>driver for 9x for the printer will allow you to print to it over a network,
>but I think that the driver was for local printing through a parallel port
>only.
Yes, as far as I can see. I was hoping for another option aside from
tsstalk or Dave ($150 to print??? Cmon...)
Thanks-
-mab
Subject: Win NT sbs 4.5 and the mac
From: "Freddf" <freddf@snet.net>
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1999 08:44:20 -0500
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Hi
I have been scouring the web on this issue,
so my question: Is it possible to integrate a Mac into an existing NT
sbs 4.5 network. and what are the ramifications? how is the client
side configured?
Thanks
Fredd
Subject: WinMac Digest #388 - 08/12/99
From: Paulo Licio de Geus <paulo@dcc.unicamp.br>
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1999 08:44:53 -0500
Mime-Version: 1.0
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On Thursday, 12August1999, The Windows-MacOS cooperation list wrote:
> Subject: LaserWriter Page Count
> From: Romeyn Prescott <prescor@potsdam.edu>
> Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 13:00:13 -0500
> Mime-Version: 1.0
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"
>
> I'm developing a printer page accounting system, and need to count
> the number of PRINTED pages in a postscript file. I intercept this
> file when the client "prints" it, and then send it onto the
> destination printer. Is there any 'form feed' command or 'end of
> page' command I can "count" in a PS document to do this page count?
>
> Alternatively, are there commands I can send to an Apple LaserWriter
> to have it send back the current page count? With HP printers I can
> send the command '@PJL INFO PAGECOUNT' to the JetDirect card before
> and after a print job has been printed, to determine the number of
> pages printed, Apple seems to provide no such mechanism.
>
> Thanks in advance,
> >...ROMeyn
After reading other replies to your question, I can't let you without
the "proper" way to do page count on a PostScript printer. There's a
primitive called something like, surprise, "pagecount", in the
PostScript interpreters in printers. You can then control spooling in
a smarter way by sending a small PostScript program in between jobs,
with that command and getting the current page count in return, as a
small interactive job. This is stored in non-volatile RAM, so you can
really keep track of page usage over the printer's life. It's the
same PS command that the Apple LaserWriter administration tool (real
name?) used to get the page count. I used to monitor cartridge life by
reading following the page count after replacements.
I even had students write, in my Unix Network Administration course,
the filters necessary to do this over lpd. I got some weird results
from a team that undertook this task: on a HP 4M, the PS pagecount
wouldn't change after any print, returning always the same value, but
the JPL (is this correct? the native command language...) version did
work. On a HP 4M plus both of them worked well.
Unfortunately, I would have to dig very far to find the project
documentation, and probably wouldn't find it. However, LPRng seems to
have this ability built-in. You may not want to change platforms to
run LPRng, but you could look at the code (if this feature is there,
of course).
Cheers,
--
Paulo Licio de Geus Internet: paulo@dcc.unicamp.br
Instituto de Computacao - UNICAMP voice: +55 19 788-5865
Av. Albert Einstein, 1251 mobile (cel): +55 19 995-1831
caixa postal: 6176 fax: +55 19 788-5847
13083-970 Campinas SP Brazil http://www.dcc.unicamp.br/~paulo
Subject: Re: best way win can print to LaserWriter 16/600?
From: "Daniel L. Schwartz" <expresso@snip.net>
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1999 08:45:39 -0500
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Dear Michael,
Ahhh, you should have been to MacWorld! :)
This very issue came up in our (Leonard, JoeMac, John & me)=20
Professional
conference. Essentially what you need to keep in mind is that LPR is
essentially one way; and that it doesn't care for PostScript=AE
bidirectionality too well. Printing to a PostScript printer over a network
from a PC just doesn't work well at all... Stick to a parallel port
connection.
This is one area where AppleTalk still works quite well (whether
implemented on a Mac or via an NT spooler: PAP (Printer Access Protocol),
which is built in to AppleTalk, makes this all possible.
POINT WORTH NOTING: You have *two* connections when using a=20
spooler: One
from the workstation to the spooler, and one from the spooler to the
printer... And you can run different stacks (IP to the spooler, AppleTalk
to the printer) if need be!
The key connection is the one between the spooler and the=20
printer: If it's
a parallel port connection, no problem. If it's an AppleTalk connection, no
problem, either. If it's an IP connection, then it's "Katy bar the door."
Essentially, there are two machines that like to "talk" to a PostScript=AE
printer: Macs, and NT servers running Services For Macintosh.
My suggestion is to use an old rePentium running NT/S 4, SP3=20
or SP5, and
SFM. Running the Spooler service uses very little in the way of CPU
resources, but it IS heavy in disk action. [If you are using "Per Seat"
licensing, then this is a non-issue.] You can find retired Prosignia 300's
(P90) for ~$100 that will work just fine and feed a dozen printers in its'
sleep.
Just my 2 cents this morning...
At 10:07 PM 8/12/99 -0500, you wrote:
>What's the best way to get our win 98 clients to print to this
>printer? I have never worked in an environment where lpr was not a
>network printer option (was in nt as far as I remember).
>
>So we were thinking putting Dave onto a Mac that uses the Appletalk
>que, then using Dave to export it as an SMB printer. Is there a
>cheaper option?
>
>-mab
=20 -----------------------------------------------------------------
THERE ARE NO ATTACHMENTS TO THIS MESSAGE, SO IF ONE
=20 APPEARS WITH IT, DO NOT OPEN OR DOWNLOAD IT!
<mailto:expresso@snip.net>
Webmaster for <http://www.Faulknerstudios.com>,
<http://www.BrakeAndGo.com>
This message is =A9Copyright 1999 by Daniel L. Schwartz, and
may not be reproduced except in its entirety.
=20 -----------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: RE: [WinMac] Postscript vs TrueType fonts
From: John Nurick <jnurick@lrconsulting.co.uk>
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1999 09:44:02 -0500
Mime-Version: 1.0
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> If you will be printing anything you create (i.e. brochures,
> flyers, books,
> magazines, catalogs - you get the picture) then PostScript
> fonts are the
> way to go.
>
> This is because PostScript fonts (Type 1 fonts, in other
> words) are more
> readily handled by printing devices using PostScript RIPs. At
> this point,
> most any filmsetter or high-end laserprinter uses a PostScript RIP.
Conversely, if you will be sending anything you create out into the
wider Wintel world, then TrueType fonts are the only way to go.
All Wintel machines since neolithic times can display and print TrueType
fonts on virtually any printer, while most systems can't display Type 1
fonts and don't have PostScript printers. In my limited experience,
cross-platform issues have only arisen with TT fonts when the Mac has
fonts from one foundry and the PC has them from a different one. If both
platforms have the exact same fonts from the same foundry, things seem
to work fine. If you also need to send stuff out to a bureau, you'll
need to make sure that their equipment is happy with TT fonts - or (I
gather; perhaps someone can confirm or explain) send it as PDF.
Subject: RE: [WinMac] Win NT sbs 4.5 and the mac
From: John Nurick <jnurick@lrconsulting.co.uk>
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1999 09:44:41 -0500
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"
> From: Freddf [mailto:freddf@snet.net]
> Hi
> I have been scouring the web on this issue,
> so my question: Is it possible to integrate a Mac into an existing NT
> sbs 4.5 network. and what are the ramifications? how is the client
> side configured?
If you really mean *integrate*, I think you'd have to install Virtual PC
and the Windows software, in particular Outlook 98 or 2000 and Access.
But the Mac can get most of the way there on its own. Dave, from Thursby
Software, lets the Mac impersonate a Windows machine to access network
shares and printers. This process hasn't been 100% smooth in my limited
experience (still trying to find out why, because most people speak
highly of Dave). We've had no problems accessing email on the Exchange
server with an SMTP client, and the latest Mac version of Outlook (the
Exchange client, not Outlook Express) is said to let you access more of
the power of Exchange than the previous one did.
OTOH if the network uses clever Outlook or SQL Server applications, it
could be too much work to match them in native Mac software.
The same is true when you look beyond SBS at how software such as MS
Office is used on the network. If they use custom Office applications
that were developed with no thought for cross-platform use (e.g. using
ActiveX controls) then the Mac is at a disadvantage. If the apps were
written to be platform independent, then no problems.
Subject: [WinMac] Re: best way win can print to LaserWriter 16/600?
From: Michael Bartosh <bartosh@tamu.edu>
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1999 09:45:20 -0500
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
> Dear Michael,
>
> Ahhh, you should have been to MacWorld! :)
>
> This very issue came up in our (Leonard, JoeMac, John & me)=20
>Professional
>conference. Essentially what you need to keep in mind is that LPR is
>essentially one way; and that it doesn't care for PostScript=AE
>bidirectionality too well. Printing to a PostScript printer over a network
>from a PC just doesn't work well at all... Stick to a parallel port
>connection.
I am aware that windows does not like postscript all to well. To say=20
the least. ;-)
>
> This is one area where AppleTalk still works quite well (whether
>implemented on a Mac or via an NT spooler: PAP (Printer Access Protocol),
>which is built in to AppleTalk, makes this all possible.
Yes- As a CE @ Apple recently pointed out to me- 'Aint NOTHIN' like=20
PAP for feature rich printing. PAP is the one thing I think will be=20
really missed when Apple completes the transition from AppleTalk to=20
complete IP.
>
> POINT WORTH NOTING: You have *two* connections when using a=20
>spooler: One
>from the workstation to the spooler, and one from the spooler to the
>printer... And you can run different stacks (IP to the spooler, AppleTalk
>to the printer) if need be!
Well- we found this
http://ich210.ich.kfa-juelich.de/wlprspl/
Which spools locally. It works ok except that to print you have to=20
drop the file onto the program's open window.
At least according to the people over in Journalism. I have not gone=20
by to install it/ fix things myself.
>
> The key connection is the one between the spooler and the=20
>printer: If it's
>a parallel port connection, no problem. If it's an AppleTalk connection, no
>problem, either. If it's an IP connection, then it's "Katy bar the door."
>Essentially, there are two machines that like to "talk" to a PostScript=AE
>printer: Macs, and NT servers running Services For Macintosh.
Haaaaaaaaa- and Solaris, and linux, and OSX Server, and any other OS=20
w/ a decent printing model. NeXT's work well.
>
> My suggestion is to use an old rePentium running NT/S 4, SP3=20
>or SP5, and
>SFM. Running the Spooler service uses very little in the way of CPU
>resources, but it IS heavy in disk action. [If you are using "Per Seat"
>licensing, then this is a non-issue.] You can find retired Prosignia 300's
>(P90) for ~$100 that will work just fine and feed a dozen printers in its'
>sleep.
There are only a couple of people over there that even use Windows-=20
much less know anything about it and certainly that know nothing=20
about nt. Every NT server I have ever seen needs at least a part time=20
administrator- and SFM seems to want a full time one. Noooooooo thank=20
you.
I am quite sure the Dave solution, below wil work. I was just looking=20
for something cheaper.
-mab
>
> Just my 2 cents this morning...
>
>At 10:07 PM 8/12/99 -0500, you wrote:
>>What's the best way to get our win 98 clients to print to this
>>printer? I have never worked in an environment where lpr was not a
>>network printer option (was in nt as far as I remember).
>>
>>So we were thinking putting Dave onto a Mac that uses the Appletalk
>>que, then using Dave to export it as an SMB printer. Is there a
>>cheaper option?
>>
>>-mab
>
>
>
>-----------------------------------------------------------------
>
> THERE ARE NO ATTACHMENTS TO THIS MESSAGE, SO IF ONE
>=20 APPEARS WITH IT, DO NOT OPEN OR DOWNLOAD IT!
>
> <mailto:expresso@snip.net>
>
> Webmaster for <http://www.Faulknerstudios.com>,
> <http://www.BrakeAndGo.com>
>
> This message is =A9Copyright 1999 by Daniel L. Schwartz, and
>may not be reproduced except in its entirety.
>
>-----------------------------------------------------------------
>
>* Windows-MacOS Cooperation List *
Subject: Re: [WinMac] Re: best way win can print to LaserWriter 16/600?
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU>
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1999 10:26:19 -0500
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Michael Bartosh wrote:
>
> > Dear Michael,
> >
> > Ahhh, you should have been to MacWorld! :)
> >
> > This very issue came up in our (Leonard, JoeMac, John & me)
> >Professional
> >conference. Essentially what you need to keep in mind is that LPR is
> >essentially one way; and that it doesn't care for PostScript®
> >bidirectionality too well. Printing to a PostScript printer over a network
> >from a PC just doesn't work well at all... Stick to a parallel port
> >connection.
>
> I am aware that windows does not like postscript all to well. To say
> the least. ;-)
>
Bruce looks in his Printers control panel at the 5 printers in there that are
postscript, out of 6 total, all on the network, and wonders what all the fuss
is about? No LaserWriters (that I use) but HP's and Xerox printers. (That 6th
printer is a venerable 5 year old HP IIID that just started weird grinding
noises...I think it's dead, Jim)
I've heard "Windows doesn't do Postscript" before on this list, and actually
I'm wondering what I'm missing; I very rarely have a problem printing, and in
the past those problems have all been traceable either to Netscape (which has
printing problems all of it's own) or flaky network interfaces on the
printers. Also, others on the network don't have these problems printing
either; as the help desk, we hear about these kinds of things. Plus, we have
to replace the comnsumables in these printers...they print a _lot_ of pages
per month.
OTOH, we avoid the Windows supplied driver like the plague and use Adobe's
driver, but still, either printing with acits LPR driver or as LPR queues
through our NT server, I've not seen these kinds of problems. Nor have I sen
them on my Mac or the ones in the building here, and since we're not running
SFM, all the macs are using LW 8's desktop printing via LPR, and they print
just fine.
The only reason most people in the College have their own printers is that
they're too lazy to walk to the networked printers. This is understandable,
since in some cases those networked printers are two floors away :-/
Subject: Re: [WinMac] Re: best way win can print to LaserWriter 16/600?
From: Leonard Rosenthol <leonardr@lazerware.com>
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1999 12:13:07 -0500
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At 10:26 AM -0500 8/13/99, Bruce Johnson wrote:
>I've heard "Windows doesn't do Postscript" before on this list, and actually
>I'm wondering what I'm missing; ......
>
>OTOH, we avoid the Windows supplied driver like the plague and use Adobe's
>driver,
That's the reason - you are smart enough to use a WORKING PS driver.
Leonard
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
You've got a SmartFriend in Pennsylvania
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Leonard Rosenthol Internet: leonardr@lazerware.com
America Online: MACgician
Web Site: <http://www.lazerware.com/>
FTP Site: <ftp://ftp.lazerware.com/>
PGP Fingerprint: C76E 0497 C459 182D 0C6B AB6B CA10 B4DF 8067 5E65
Subject: Re: [WinMac] Re: best way win can print to LaserWriter 16/600?
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU>
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1999 12:42:55 -0500
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"
Leonard Rosenthol wrote:
>
> At 10:26 AM -0500 8/13/99, Bruce Johnson wrote:
> >I've heard "Windows doesn't do Postscript" before on this list, and actually
> >I'm wondering what I'm missing; ......
> >
> >OTOH, we avoid the Windows supplied driver like the plague and use Adobe's
> >driver,
>
> That's the reason - you are smart enough to use a WORKING PS driver.
Then that's a heckuva cheaper solution than Dan's which means buying a
printer for every PC.
Come to think of it, we _did_ have endless problems when we first
started messing with the PS printers; that's when we started using Adobe
drivers, it was just a long time ago.
--
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group
Subject: RE: [WinMac] Win NT sbs 4.5 and the mac
From: Lic. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Jos=E9?= Miguel =?iso-8859-1?Q?Le=F3n?= Franco
<josemiguel@uriartetalavera.com.mx>
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1999 15:14:47 -0500
Mime-Version: 1.0
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>=20 -----Mensaje original-----
>=20 De: Freddf [SMTP:freddf@snet.net]
>=20 Enviado el: Viernes 13 de Agosto de 1999 7:44 AM
>=20 Para: The Windows-MacOS cooperation list
>=20 Asunto: [WinMac] Win NT sbs 4.5 and the mac
>
>=20 Hi
>=20 I have been scouring the web on this issue,
>=20 so my question: Is it possible to integrate a Mac into an existing NT
>=20 sbs 4.5 network. and what are the ramifications? how is the client
>=20 side configured?
>=20 Thanks
>=20 Fredd
The answer is YES, but not all the services you had in PC.
1) INTERNET & INTRANET: you can't access to the INTERNET via
Proxy server 1.0 (which came with SBS 4.0), because Microsoft doesn't
make Proxy client for macintosh. I tried DAVE but they write an E-mail
to me that it can't be done because of the same reason, you don't have a
proxy client fo macs, maybe you can access the INTRANET with DAVE since
it uses natural TCPIP, but for the INTERNET, forget it unless you have a
modem in the mac side. I don't know if Proxy 2.0 solves this problem in
SBS 4.5 (which includes it) since i have the SBS 4.0. If you don't have
any INTRANET solution that uses only Web explorers, foget DAVE, it does
not matter.
If somebody know any third party solution, please TELL US.
2) E-MAIL: What you need is the file SP2_55MA.hqx (last version
of working Outlook for MAC) which came in Exchange SP2, but you can
download it in Microsoft's Web Site. You can send and receive any mail
in the Intranet or the Internet with the same limits for the PC, but you
don't have the contact tool and notepad tool like the pc;and someone in
this list said in another issue that you can't conect the schedules of
any PC Outlook with the MAC Outlook, ie. you can't share agendas.
3) FAX SERVICE: There isn't a MS Fax Client for the mac so you
can't send a fax via selecting the fax printer, but since the fax
service is via Exchange Server, maybe you can use it like any normal
E-mail in Outlook with the fax number in the TO field in the form [Fax
Number]@[Exchange Server Name]. I never tested it even on the PC side,
but the theory is in Microsoft's Web Site.
4) FILE & PRINT SERVICES : In SBS 4.0 (the version in Spanish we
had at office) i connect one MAC with MACIP enabled, just type the IP
address of your server (10.0.0.2 by default) and select the zone. But
first you must enable MAC SERVICES in the NT Server (go to NETWORK in
CONTROL PANEL then access the SERVICES tab and press the ADD button to
select MAC SERVICES).
If you need to access the server's hardisk, you need to enable
MACFILE in the server after the mac services. WinNT installs a MACFILE
icon in control panel when you install mac services, so you can share
partitions and directories for use in mac.
Again, in the Microsoft Web Site you can find more information
on this issues.
5) SQL Database : This is dificult to implement in the mac side.
I don't know if there is a SQL database for Mac. The theory is that if
you have any SQL, you can conect with Microsoft SQL.
6) Aplications designed for SBS or BackOffice: If the aplication
is designed with an user interface based on Exchange with the STANDARD
TOOLS and no special component in the client side ( Exchange folders,
Exchange Conectors in the server only), then it should work. If there is
a special component in the client side, then you need the mac version,
or forget about it.
7) Network Antivirus : partial solution (for example PANDA
ANTIVIRUS), since if you don't have the mac version, only the servers on
your network (Exchange server, file server with macfile) are protected.
The mac files in the server are protected (because they are stored IN
the file server), but the local hard disk in the Mac workstation isn't,
so you need to install a local antivirus.
I hope this can help you
your friend
Jose Miguel Le=F3n
Systems Manager
Uriarte Talavera
Puebla, M=E9xico
* Windows-MacOS Cooperation List *
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