Compaq's NT HAL's [was:Re: Mac OS 8.6]
Daniel L. Schwartz(expresso[at]snip.net)
Fri, 23 Jul 1999 22:49:56 -0400
WinMac Digest #375 - Saturday, July 24, 1999
Re: [WinMac] MacWorld Expo Report - Something for everyone!
by "Bruce Johnson" <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU>
Re: [WinMac] MacWorld Expo Report - Something for everyone!
by "Michael bartosh" <bartosh@apple.tamu.edu>
Re: MacWorld Expo Report - Something for everyone!
by "Leonard Rosenthol" <leonardr@lazerware.com>
Compaq's NT HAL's [was:Re: Mac OS 8.6]
by "Daniel L. Schwartz" <expresso@snip.net>
Subject: Re: [WinMac] MacWorld Expo Report - Something for everyone!
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU>
Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 22:48:47 -0400
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Daniel L. Schwartz wrote:
>
> EMULATORS, INC.:
>
> This is one product that blew me away: It's a MacOS 8
> emulator that runs
> on 95/98 and NT/x86. **This is the reverse of Connectix' VirtualPC.**
<screeeech> Whoah there Nelly! Slow down a leeetle, itsy bitsy teeny
weenie polka-dot moment there.
This software requires a ROM image from an appropriate Mac, supported
models are Mac IIci, Mac IIsi, Mac IIfx, Mac LC, Mac LC II. To do this
legally, you have to buy one of these boxes. At that, it's better than
their old system which physically required the ROM chips themselves
installed on a card.
It emulates a 68040 at best. They _claim_ to emulate a '200 mHz 68030'
on a 300 mHz PII running Win98 on their web page, whatever that means. I
would think that would be the equivalent of what, Virtual PC being
clocked as a 200 mHz 80386?? They have a bar chart that shows on a 300
mHz PII it's running a bit faster than a Quadra 610. Note the test is a
Microsoft Word 5.1 Word Count benchmark.
Anything that's PowerPC only...no dice. This, to be truthful, means just
about no modern software ackage will run on this.
Don't get me wrong, it's a nifty product, and a neat hack. I just have a
real hard time seeing where it'll be very useful.
I mean, the only use I ever hear for Virtual PC is so that people can
continue to use their Macs when management (or someone else) foists some
windowze only 'solution' on them. (Usually it's a 'solution without a
problem', too)
If you want a fast, capable Mac to run some program you've got, heck an
iMac is only $1200, refurbed ones are running $800 right now, used macs
much faster than Quadra 610's are a lot cheaper than that.
To be fair, this is the same thing I tell people wondering whether to
buy Virtual PC to do something...it's usually almost as cheap, and much
more efficient to get an older used PC.
--
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group
Subject: Re: [WinMac] MacWorld Expo Report - Something for everyone!
From: Michael bartosh <bartosh@apple.tamu.edu>
Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 22:49:15 -0400
Mime-Version: 1.0
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> [For the uninitiated, MacOS X (MacOS 10) is Rhapsody renamed.
Actually, and I think this has been stressed- not at all. The OS code
named Rhapsody was dropped in favor of OS X Server. Several core
technologies remain, but if you look at the overall strategies, you
see two vastly different platforms.
Rhapsody:
-No backwards compatibility outside of blue box
-OpenStep API
-DPS display model
OS X
-Runs standard MacOS Apps
-Preemptively runs 'Carbonized' MacOS Apps
-No 'blue box' (its functionality is transperant)
-uses Cocoa, not OpenStep API
-new display model
-java more integrated into OS
>They
>released the server version first, and this winter they'll have a desktop
>version. It runs on an old version of the Mach kernel, and (apparently)
>along side the BSD kernel so that it can execute BSD source - On the Mach
>kernel.]
Again, this is false. There is no BSD kernel in OS X. Anywhere. OS X
Server is based on the Mach 2.5 kernel and OS X is based on Mach3.0.
The BSD environment rests on top of Mac and handles file structure ad
many system level tasks.
>
> In any case, several issues arose about OS X:
>
> A) No graceful shutdown in the event of a power failure. There is no
>software that can receive serial port or USB info from a UPS for OS-X (BUT,
>see GeeThree.Com above for MacOS 8.x and PowerChute);
This is the one legit OS X tidbit in this report.
>
> b) No real backup software (except tar and tar.z - Old, but
>it just barely
>works)... Is anyone with initials "P.B." paying attention?! :)
Cron, tar, gzip and dump are excellent back up methods that are very
much accepted and used in the Unix community. Additionally there are
several open sourced alternatives, most of which compile easily on OS
X. If you just HAVE to have a commercial solution, check out OmniBack
from the Omni group. I think it is about ready to go GM.
>
> In short, OS X is not ready for prime time - No more than NT
>3.12 was...
This is baloney, esp. considering OSX's astounding performance as a
web server and middleware server (WebObjects). Nothing nt 3.51 had
(or 4.o has) comes close to MacManager on the workgroup server side.
OS X Server is more than ready for prime time.
-mab
Subject: Re: MacWorld Expo Report - Something for everyone!
From: Leonard Rosenthol <leonardr@lazerware.com> (by way of "Daniel L.
Schwartz" <expresso@snip.net>)
Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 22:49:37 -0400
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=46rom: Leonard Rosenthol <leonardr@lazerware.com>
A couple of comments/corrections on Dan's report!
At 5:58 PM -0400 7/23/99, Daniel L. Schwartz wrote:
> 3) Windows 2000 Server series: Confirmed that RC1 is indeed shipping.
>Win2K Server supports AFP over IP (Apple Filing Protocol over IP), for
>faster transfers. According to Leonard Rosenthal, W2K's Services For Mac
>(SFM) is supposed to emulate ASIP 5.x (AppleShare Server IP). This will
>also require Chooser Extension version 3.7 or higher on the Mac client to
>implement. No longer does the AppleTalk stack install together with SFM: It
>is a separate installation item.
It wasn't me! It was a women sitting in the front row of our
Conference session, who had actually tried it. I haven't set up
Win2K myself yet.
> 2) Photoshop 5.5 is not a "must-have" upgrade unless you make a living
>with it.
Or you are doing Web graphics! ImageReady 2.0 (now bundled
with PS) is a MAJOR update in terms of power and features for
creating top-notch web graphics. If you do web stuff, and already
own/use either PS or ImageReady - UPGRADE!
> 4) Acrobat Reader: I pleaded with one of the developers (from their San
>Diego facility) to produce a native AlphaNT version; but I received the
>boilerplate reply that there is not enough demand, yada yada yada...
Where'd you find Marshall? But yes, he's going to give you
the same story that I have, for the same reasons...Sorry, Dan!
> DIAMONDSOFT: FONT RESERVE 2.0
It's a good company run by good folks and they are worth supporting!
> EMULATORS, INC.:
>
> This is one product that blew me away: It's a MacOS 8
>emulator that runs
>on 95/98 and NT/x86. **This is the reverse of Connectix' VirtualPC.**
It's certainly interesting, though I am not entirely sure of
who they think their market is. I would GUESS that they are selling
to folks with PC's who need to run some software that only exists on
Macs and then ONLY 68K Macs - a VERY small set of products (for me,
the only one that I use is BBEdit)
> CANTO:
>
> Their Cumulus image asset management system, currently at version 5,
On the other hand, the changes/improvements in v5 look pretty
nice and may be enough to make me switch from Extensis Portfolio (aka
Aldus Fetch) for all my digital photos. I'm impressed that they've
added scripting/automation to their Wintel version!
> COBALT:
>
> ISP's, take note: Their new RaQ line is ideally suited for you with
>limited space with their 1U rack height. They got high marks just this
>Wednesday from Ziff-Davis.
And they look REALLY cool sitting on a desk ;).
Quick synopsis - it's a neat looking blue cube (maybe a foot
square) that contains a full featured MIPS-based Linux box that comes
preconfigured with Apache, FTP, mail, etc. All config is via a
browser.
> MacOS STUFF:
>
> System 8.7 (Sonata) was renamed by Steve to "MacOS 9" That means we're
>going to have to pay $99 for this set of bug fixes.
Sonata/MacOS 9 is MUCH more than bug fixes - in fact, it
probably as much new technology (if not more) than anything since
8.0! I'll leave it to the relevant rumors sites for details so I
don't blow my NDA, but suffice it to say that it has a LOT of good
stuff in it!
Leonard
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Subject: Compaq's NT HAL's [was:Re: Mac OS 8.6]
From: "Daniel L. Schwartz" <expresso@snip.net>
Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 22:49:56 -0400
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I'll reply inline...
At 09:36 AM 5/25/99 -0500, Chris Hoogendyk wrote:
>
>In a message dated 5/25/99 12:20:58 AM, expresso@snip.net writes:
>
>> Hmmm, let's see: I didn't have to reinstall any drivers when
>installing
>>NT4's Service Pack 2, 3, 4, & 5. If we look at MacOS 8.5, we see that
>>Service Pack 1 ("MacOS 8.5.1") and Service Pack 2 ("MacOS 8.6") may have
>>needed new drivers. AND, these drivers operate down in CPU Ring Zero
>>(Supervisor or Kernel Mode), so they are indeed quite easy to break.
>
>give it a break. why always this putdown angle?
It's not a putdown... Just what happens, as is well
documented in MacInTouch
>to be honest to the people who don't know NT as well, . . .
>
>When I did my first server install for NT4sp3 (as opposed to all the
>workstation installs) on a dual everything Compaq, I enlisted the help of the
>LAN Support group from OIT who had installed dozens of similar servers. They
>walked me through installing the basic NT4 and then something like several
>dozen patches. They felt that this whole sequence was very important.
There's the problem right off the bat: You were using a 3rd party HAL,
instead of the "plain vanilla" HAL that comes on the NT CD/ROM. Just
because Compaq built the hardware doesn't mean that their HAL is any
"better." In fact, AFTER I brought up a Prosignia 500 with NT4/SP2,
Compaq's "tech support" recommended downloading "their" update files.
Blue Screen Of Death.
>This same group came over to do an upgrade to NT4 sp4 (from sp3) on one of
>our Compaq servers and ended up having to down the server for a day or more,
>wipe it clean and completely re-install it. Something to do with the
>proprietary nature of the Compaqs, even though they are considered the best
>of the Intel based servers.
I would hardly consider Compaq to be the best of the x86 servers:
DIGITAL's offerings were (are) much better, and so are IBM's. I wouldn't
put Compaq much ahead of HP's crud...
And again, there's nothing "proprietary" about a Compaq
server - You can
trash their HAL's - And "Management Utilities" - and just do a plain,
simple install.
>Because of that experience, they have scheduled a full day of downtime to
>update our primary staff server to NT4sp4 (sp5 is out now). This happens to
>work because the library is closed that day while we swap out and replace our
>catalog servers (DEC Alphas running Digital Unix). So a couple hundred people
>won't be able to do any work on computers that day. We'll have an end of
>semester book shelving party -- music in the stacks.
Here's the way to reinstall it:
1) NT/Server 4, basic services only
2) Diskeeper, then defrag;
3) RDISK /S
4) Service Pack 5 (make a shortcut & put it on the Desktop)
5) Services For Macintosh, and SNMP;
6) SP5 again;
7) RDISK /S
8) Run Diskeeper to defrag again.
If you want to throw in IIS4, do it between steps 5 & 6.
CONSPICUOUS BY ITS ABSENCE: Any stuff from Compaq.
By the way, this is why, in NT5, err, W2k, for Micros~1 to
"take back" the
drivers & other crap from the OEM's. Is it any wonder? Ever seen H-P's NT
management utilities? Worse than running System 7.1.2 on a Power Mac!
-> There's never enough time to do the job right, but always
enough time to
do it over.
[unix stuff cut]
[At this point it's well worth noting that there IS a notable
exception:
DIGITAL. DEC and MS runs/ran a joint NT development lab - That is why NT on
an Alpha runs so smoothly, and as a byproduct their NT/x86 systems also
runs/ran quite well. Unfortunately, after DEC was compaqted some of the
talent fled. To read more about this situation, go to
http://www.acersoft.com>, where Terry Shannon maintains his Shannon Knows
DEC (now Shannon Knows Compaq) newsletter - A well respected newsletter
that has been around for over 15 years - Even before the Mac!]
>Anyway, I think we could talk about Windows and Mac factually without the
>partisan putdowns.
Actually, most everything I write about the Mac comes straight from Ric
Ford's MacInTouch keyboard - He knows the MacOS better than any of us on
this list.
>Chris Hoogendyk
>Network Specialist
>UMass Library, Amherst
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