Actually, almost all of the advice you have received is correct... But
almost is only good enough in horseshoes & hand grenades!
This bug manifests itself especially on networks that run the DHCP Server
Service on Windows NT/Server. And, it's an Apple bug, not an NT bug.
This message is ©Copyright 1999 by Daniel L. Schwartz, and
may not be reproduced except in its entirety.
There seems to be no such equivalent in Windows. In Explorer, you can right
click a directory and check properties, but it would take forever hunting
around for large files that could be purged.
At 7:43 PM -0400 7/7/99, Daniel L. Schwartz wrote:
>
> Actually, almost all of the advice you have received is correct... But
>almost is only good enough in horseshoes & hand grenades!
>
> If you are running MacOS 8.5 or 8.5.1, you will need to select "BootP
>Server" instead of "DHCP Server," in the TCP/IP control panel, due to a
>flaw in those versions of Open Transport. MacOS 8.6 fixed this known
>(Apple) engineering bug.
>
> This bug manifests itself especially on networks that run the
>DHCP Server
>Service on Windows NT/Server. And, it's an Apple bug, not an NT bug.
--
Darron Spohn
Publications Manager
ClickNet Software Corp.
"For every action there is an equal and moronic overreaction."
Peter Egan
Subject: Re: DCHP-based Intranet
From: "Daniel L. Schwartz" <expresso@snip.net>
Date: Wed, 07 Jul 1999 21:29:48 -0400
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/enriched; charset="us-ascii"
I *knew* someone would take the bait... Please see below.
BTW, the lease time in NT's DHCP Server is adjustable; but as you'll see
below this particular Apple bug has nothing to do with DHCP lease time.
And the source of this was Ralph Droms, who is the chair of the Dynamic
Host Configuration working group (DHC WG) of the IETF and author of the
DHCP specs; via MacInTouch! :)
From my April 23, 1999 posting to this very WinMac list, I quote
verbatim:
---------------
>>>>
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 23:58:44 -0500
To: "The Windows-MacOS cooperation list"
<<winmac@xerxes.frit.utexas.edu>
From: "Daniel L. Schwartz" <<expresso@snip.net>
Subject: [WinMac] Mac DHCP client <<-> NT DHCP Server follow-up
Reply-To: "The Windows-MacOS cooperation list"
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So, according to Mr. Droms, it *was* Apple screwing up on
this important issue, after all, by having the client starting in
INIT-REBOOT state *after* sending a DHCPRELEASE message upon previous
Mac shutdown.
Thanks are due to Mr. Droms and Ric Ford for bringing this
problem to a close.
Dan Schwartz
>>>>
>DHCP Standards
>Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 21:39:11 -0400
>To: notes@macintouch.com
>From: Ralph Droms (droms@bucknell.edu)
>Subject: DHCP problems with MacOS 8.5 and OT 2.02
>
>
>I'm writing in response to what appears to be considerable confusion
>about DHCP, OT 2.02 and various servers. I'm chair of the Dynamic
>Host Configuration working group (DHC WG) of the IETF and author of
>the DHCP specs. Here are some notes about the DHCP mail you posted
>recently.
>
>
>- Ralph Droms
> Chair, IETF DHC working group
> Computer Science Department
> Bucknell University
>
>
>
>
>* According to RFC 2131, when a DHCP client restarts, it is either
>in INIT state or INIT-REBOOT state. If the client doesn't have an IP
>address, it starts in INIT state and broadcasts a DHCPDISCOVER
>message to find a server willing to assign an address to the client.
>If the client has an IP address with an unexpired lease, it starts
>in INIT-REBOOT state and the client broadcasts a DHCPREQUEST message
>to confirm that its address is still valid.
>
>* There is another aspect to the behavior of the OT 2.02 client that
>has only recently been documented (Internet Draft
>draft-ietf-dhc-ipv4-autoconfig-04.txt). If the OT client receives no
>response to a DHCPDISCOVER message in INIT state, the client will
>select an address from the 169.254.0.0 subnet, which has been
>registered with IANA as the LINKLOCAL subnet. Recent Windows DHCP
>clients also use this autoconfiguration mechanism.
>
>* There was some not quite correct information about DHCP clients in
>one of the [reader notes]. A DHCP client always tries to contact a
>server when it restarts, whether or not it has an address with an
>unexpired lease, as described above. If a client in INIT-REBOOT
>state receives no response to its DHCPREQUEST messages, it assumes
>that its address is OK and continues to use its old address. Sending
>a DHCPRELEASE message is optional on the part of the client. If the
>client will not reuse the address again (i.e., the client is moving
>to a new network segment) or is willing to obtain a new address when
>it restarts, it may issue a DHCPREQUEST and restart in INIT state;
>otherwise, the client may remain silent at shutdown and restart in
>INIT-REBOOT state.
>
>* Based on RFC 2131, the behavior of OT 2.02, in which it restarts
>in INIT-REBOOT state after issuing a DHCPRELEASE at the previous
>shutdown, is incorrect. I've been in communication with the DHCP
>team at Apple; they understand that this behavior is incorrect and
>they plan to correct it.
>
>* When starting (incorrectly) in INIT-REBOOT state, after receiving
>no server response, the OT 2.02 Macs are following RFC 2131 and
>using their previous address. I'm a little surprised that the
>servers in question don't respond to the DHCPREQUEST for a released
>address with a DHCPNAK message. I'm also a little surprised that
>these Macs then revert to INIT state at the next use of OT; perhaps
>the lease on the reused address has timed out and the Mac was unable
>to extend the lease?
>
>
>
>[Follow-up]
>
>Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 08:32:23 -0400
>To: Ric Ford
>From: Ralph Droms
>
>
>There is an IETF page for the DHC WG,
>http://www.ietf.org/html.charters/dhc-charter.html and I run a
>DHCP-related site at http://www.dhcp.org
>
>- Ralph
>
>
>
>Rainoff Summary
>Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 16:21:17 -0400
>From: Adam Rainoff
>To: notes@macintouch.com
>Subject: DHCP and 8.5.1 comments
>
>
>Editor: I noticed much technical info posted. However, for the
>nontechnical, let me suggest the following post.
>
>Regarding the DHCP Issue & Mac OS 8.5.1
>
>The Bad news:
>
>Mac 0S 8.5.1 has a problem maintaining DHCP connections. This is the
>reason your ADSL or other DHCP service "drops". It's really not the
>provider's fault at all.
>
>The Good news:
>
>Mac OS 8.6 fixes this problem, not only with ADSL, but with ALL DHCP
>services. The 8.6 update is scheduled for release sometime soon.
>
>Workaround:
>
>Reset your IP address by
>
>1) Open the TCP/IP control panel
>2) Change to "Using BootP Server"
>3) Close & Save
>4) Open the TCP/IP control panel
>5) Change to "Using DHCP Server"
>6) Close & Save
>
>
>Repeat if necessary. This will reset the IP and get you back online.
>
>
<<<<<<<<
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ALTERNATE: <<mailto:expresso@workmail.com>
Webmaster for <<http://www.Faulknerstudios.com>,
<<http://www.BrakeAndGo.com>
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<<<<<<<<
---------------
At 08:16 PM 7/7/99 -0500, Mike wrote:
>At 7:43 PM -0400 7/7/99, Daniel L. Schwartz wrote:
>>
>> Actually, almost all of the advice you have received is correct...
But
>>almost is only good enough in horseshoes & hand grenades!
>>
>> If you are running MacOS 8.5 or 8.5.1, you will need to select
"BootP
>>Server" instead of "DHCP Server," in the TCP/IP control panel, due to
a
>>flaw in those versions of Open Transport. MacOS 8.6 fixed this known
>>(Apple) engineering bug.
>>
>> This bug manifests itself especially on networks that run the
>>DHCP Server
>>Service on Windows NT/Server. And, it's an Apple bug, not an NT bug.
>
>Again, an 'Apple' bug I have not seen manifest itself on anything but
>NT, and then only with insanely short lease times.
>
>
>-mab
Subject: [WinMac] Re: DCHP-based Intranet
From: Michael bartosh <bartosh@tamu.edu>
Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 20:51:48 -0500
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"
At 9:29 PM -0400 7/7/99, Daniel L. Schwartz wrote:
>
> From my April 23, 1999 posting to this very WinMac list, I
>quote verbatim:
Fine and dandy. All I said was that the ONLY server platform that
demonstrated this behavior was NT.
I hold to that statement.
-mab
Subject: Pegasus ---> Eudora Conversion?
From: Antony Lord <macgyver@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au>
Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 19:59:12 +0800
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"
Is there a tool for converting Pegasus e-mail files in to one usable by Eudora?
Cheers, Antony.
Subject: PageMaker 6.5x on Mac OS 8.6
From: Tom Roth <tomroth@wfubmc.edu>
Date: Thu, 08 Jul 1999 08:09:22 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
From: http://www.adobe.com/supportservice/custsupport/SOLUTIONS/a96a.htm
------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 16. Type 1 and Type 2 Errors When Running PageMaker 6.5x on Mac OS 8.6
>
> Mac OS 8.6 returns a Type 1 or Type 2 error when you perform one of the
> following actions in PageMaker 6.5x:
> - Print EPS files
> - Place Adobe Illustrator (AI), PDF, or ASCII text files
> - Create hanging indents
>
> Apple has identified the source of these problems and is currently working
> on an updater that addresses these issues. Please be assured that Adobe
> and Apple will both post information on solutions as soon as they are
> available. In the meantime, you should continue to use an earlier version
> of the Mac OS to avoid problems.
Does anyone know if there is any solution to this problem yet? I looked
around the Adobe and the Apple web sites yesterday and found nothing to
fix it. I'm kicking myself because I went from 7.6.1 to 8.5.1 and then
a week later 8.6 came out so I upgraded and ever since then I've not
been able to print from PageMaker. Since I only had 8.5.1 for about a
week I'm not sure if the problem exists with it also or only with 8.6.
From what I've seen on Adobe's User to User Forum the problem sounds as
if it's only with 8.6.
If anyone knows anything about this problem please contact me. I'm
about to go back to 8.5.1 though I hate to take all the time to do that
if it won't work. I know PageMaker is working fine in 8.1 because
that's what most all of our designers are using.
______________________________________________________________________
Tom Roth Wake Forest University School of Medicine
tomroth@wfubmc.edu Dept of Biomedical Communications
http://www.wfubmc.edu/biomed/ Medical Center Blvd
Tel 336.716.4493 Winston-Salem, NC 27157-1011
______________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: PageMaker 6.5x on Mac OS 8.6
From: "Daniel L. Schwartz" <expresso@snip.net>
Date: Thu, 08 Jul 1999 08:35:28 -0400
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Did you update Adobe Type Manager Deluxe to version 4.5? Also, is the
problem reproducible with the AdobePS Chooser Extension (print driver)?
Cheers!
Dan
At 08:09 AM 7/8/99 -0400, you wrote:
>
>From: http://www.adobe.com/supportservice/custsupport/SOLUTIONS/a96a.htm
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> 16. Type 1 and Type 2 Errors When Running PageMaker 6.5x on Mac OS 8.6
>>=20
>> Mac OS 8.6 returns a Type 1 or Type 2 error when you perform one of the
>> following actions in PageMaker 6.5x:
>> - Print EPS files
>> - Place Adobe Illustrator (AI), PDF, or ASCII text files
>> - Create hanging indents
>>=20
>> Apple has identified the source of these problems and is currently=
working
>> on an updater that addresses these issues. Please be assured that Adobe=
=20
>> and Apple will both post information on solutions as soon as they are
>> available. In the meantime, you should continue to use an earlier version
>> of the Mac OS to avoid problems.
>
>
>Does anyone know if there is any solution to this problem yet? I looked
>around the Adobe and the Apple web sites yesterday and found nothing to
>fix it. I'm kicking myself because I went from 7.6.1 to 8.5.1 and then
>a week later 8.6 came out so I upgraded and ever since then I've not
>been able to print from PageMaker. Since I only had 8.5.1 for about a
>week I'm not sure if the problem exists with it also or only with 8.6.=20
>>From what I've seen on Adobe's User to User Forum the problem sounds as
>if it's only with 8.6.=20
>
>If anyone knows anything about this problem please contact me. I'm
>about to go back to 8.5.1 though I hate to take all the time to do that
>if it won't work. I know PageMaker is working fine in 8.1 because
>that's what most all of our designers are using.
> =20
> ______________________________________________________________________
> Tom Roth Wake Forest University School of Medicine
> tomroth@wfubmc.edu Dept of Biomedical Communications
> http://www.wfubmc.edu/biomed/ Medical Center Blvd
> Tel 336.716.4493 Winston-Salem, NC 27157-1011
> ______________________________________________________________________
>
-----------------------------------------------------------------
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APPEARS WITH IT, DO NOT OPEN OR DOWNLOAD IT!
GRAMMATICAL NOTE: Due to confusion when spelling a URL or file name
inside quotes " " or ' ,' extraneous punctuation is moved to the
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<mailto:expresso@snip.net>=20
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<http://www.BrakeAndGo.com>
This message is =A9Copyright 1999 by Daniel L. Schwartz, and
may not be reproduced except in its entirety.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: [WinMac] PageMaker 6.5x on Mac OS 8.6
From: Tom Roth <tomroth@wfubmc.edu>
Date: Thu, 08 Jul 1999 08:48:14 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>"Daniel L. Schwartz" wrote:
>
> Did you update Adobe Type Manager Deluxe to version 4.5?
I'm using the regular (non-deluxe version) ATM 4.0.2.
> Also, is the problem reproducible with the AdobePS Chooser
> Extension (print driver)?
You can avoid the problem if you hold down the option key when selecting
print which forces PageMaker to use the operating system's printer
driver instead of it's own but then you don't have access to all the
features that one has when printing from PageMaker so it's not much of a
work around. I'm trying to print to an imagesetter so I need those
options like line screen, dot angle, transverse, etc.
> Tom Roth wrote:
> >> 16. Type 1 and Type 2 Errors When Running PageMaker 6.5x on Mac OS 8.6
> >>
> >> Mac OS 8.6 returns a Type 1 or Type 2 error when you perform one of the
> >> following actions in PageMaker 6.5x:
> >> - Print EPS files
> >> - Place Adobe Illustrator (AI), PDF, or ASCII text files
> >> - Create hanging indents
> >>
> >> Apple has identified the source of these problems and is currently working
> >> on an updater that addresses these issues. Please be assured that Adobe
> >> and Apple will both post information on solutions as soon as they are
> >> available. In the meantime, you should continue to use an earlier version
> >> of the Mac OS to avoid problems.
> >
> >
> >Does anyone know if there is any solution to this problem yet?
______________________________________________________________________
Tom Roth Wake Forest University School of Medicine
tomroth@wfubmc.edu Dept of Biomedical Communications
http://www.wfubmc.edu/biomed/ Medical Center Blvd
Tel 336.716.4493 Winston-Salem, NC 27157-1011
______________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: [WinMac] PageMaker 6.5x on Mac OS 8.6
From: Leonard Rosenthol <leonardr@lazerware.com>
Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 10:32:58 -0400
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" ; format="flowed"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
At 8:09 AM -0400 7/8/99, Tom Roth wrote:
>From: http://www.adobe.com/supportservice/custsupport/SOLUTIONS/a96a.htm
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > 16. Type 1 and Type 2 Errors When Running PageMaker 6.5x on Mac OS 8.6
> >
>Does anyone know if there is any solution to this problem yet?
Yes, there are a couple of them that you can get.
The problem is the broken FONT/FOND resources in 8.6 - and=20
there are a number of patchers/fixers available from you favorite=20
sites. I would recommend MacFixIt <http://www.macfixit.com> as they=20
have been all over this issue.
Leonard
P.S. Adobe was the one that identified the bug to Apple.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
You've got a SmartFriend=81 in Pennsylvania
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Leonard Rosenthol Internet: leonardr@lazerware.com
America Online: MACgician
Web Site: <http://www.lazerware.com/>
=46TP Site: <ftp://ftp.lazerware.com/>
PGP Fingerprint: C76E 0497 C459 182D 0C6B AB6B CA10 B4DF 8067 5E65
Subject: Re: [WinMac] PageMaker 6.5x on Mac OS 8.6
From: Tom Roth <tomroth@wfubmc.edu>
Date: Thu, 08 Jul 1999 10:41:59 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> >Tom Roth wrote:
> >From: http://www.adobe.com/supportservice/custsupport/SOLUTIONS/a96a.htm
> >------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > 16. Type 1 and Type 2 Errors When Running PageMaker 6.5x on Mac OS 8.6
> > >
> >Does anyone know if there is any solution to this problem yet?
> Leonard Rosenthol wrote:
>
> Yes, there are a couple of them that you can get.
>
> The problem is the broken FONT/FOND resources in 8.6 - and there
> are a number of patchers/fixers available from you favorite sites.
> I would recommend MacFixIt <http://www.macfixit.com> as they have
> been all over this issue.
>
> Leonard
> P.S. Adobe was the one that identified the bug to Apple.
Thank you very much Leonard! I'm heading to MacFixIt
<http://www.macfixit.com> next!
______________________________________________________________________
Tom Roth Wake Forest University School of Medicine
tomroth@wfubmc.edu Dept of Biomedical Communications
http://www.wfubmc.edu/biomed/ Medical Center Blvd
Tel 336.716.4493 Winston-Salem, NC 27157-1011
______________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: [WinMac] Listing size of Directories in NT
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU>
Date: Thu, 08 Jul 1999 07:47:32 -0700
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Yes, there's a feeware program called Wintree (IIRC) that does this quite
nicely. In fact we use it for exactly this purpose: seeing who is the
diskspace hog.
I picked it up at http://www.winfiles.com. I'm off work today, I'll check it
tomorrow, but I'm pretty sure that was the name.
There's a Pro version that costs some money with more bells and whistles.
Finally, it's a losing battle. Like a vaccuum, Nature apparently abhors an
empty disk ;-) I made a quick plot of when we started networking where I work
to today of date vs disk space on the server. We're about to enter the really
_vertical_ part of that exponential curve.
We started with a 486/33 with a 1gb drive back when that was a 'wow' purchase
('93 or '94), about $2000, and now have (counting on fingers) 5 servers with
some 32 gb of space. That 1gb drive, incidentally, was the most expensive
single disk drive we ever bought.
Every other single drive we have purchased has cost us around $800-$1200 each.
They just keep getting bigger. We're awaiting the 4 8 (or is it 12) gb drives
for our array on the alpha (supposed to ship today) and yesterday my boss was
setting up the new server, with either 5 or 6 8-gb drives in an array. This
ought to hold us maybe 8 months...
Robert F. Crean wrote:
>
> I am totally frustrated:
> Attempting to "clean house" on our server whose disk array has filled to 90%
> of capacity in no time at all. On our macs, I can set "calculate folder
> sizes" in preferences and then sort by size, going after the large files
> within.
>
> There seems to be no such equivalent in Windows. In Explorer, you can right
> click a directory and check properties, but it would take forever hunting
> around for large files that could be purged.
>
> Is there a way to do this in Windows, or is there an App anyone knows of?
>
Subject: Re: [WinMac] Listing size of Directories in NT
From: Curtis Wilcox <cwcx@mail.rochester.edu>
Date: Thu, 08 Jul 1999 11:58:56 -0400
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
At 07:47 AM 7/8/99 -0700, Bruce Johnson wrote:
>Yes, there's a feeware program called Wintree (IIRC) that does this quite
>nicely. In fact we use it for exactly this purpose: seeing who is the
>diskspace hog.
Do you mean Winfree?
<http://omak.com/Ray/files.html>
There are a bunch of other ones, many free and perhaps better, at WinFiles
<http://www.winfiles.com/apps/nt/disk-analyze.html>
ZDNet's HotFiles gave five stars to a free program in this category called
Stats 99.
http://hotfiles.zdnet.com/cgi-bin/texis/swlib/hotfiles/info.html?fcode=000XIZ&b
--
Curtis Wilcox cwcx@ats.rochester.edu
Desktop Systems Consultant 716/274-1160
Eastman School of Music Pager: x12-3290
Subject: PageMaker 6.52 & Mac OS 8.6 fixed!
From: Tom Roth <tomroth@wfubmc.edu>
Date: Thu, 08 Jul 1999 13:56:00 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Thanks to Leonard Rosenthol who pointed me to MacFixIt website
http://www.macfixit.com/ which addresses this problem. From there I
found the following two fixes.
Alsoft, makers of MasterJuggler Pro, has available for free, Corrupt
FOND Fixer which is a small little application that scans your hard
drive for files with corrupt FONDs. You can get it at --> http://www.Alsoft.com/AskAl/download.html
DiamondSoft, makers of Font Reserve, has released a System Extension
called "FONT Fixer for 8.6" which fixes this problem. This System
Extension is available for free. You can get it at --> http://ww2.fontreserve.com/update/fontfix.html
I downloaded both of these and ran Alsoft's Corrupt FOND Fixer first and
then installed DiamondSoft's FONT Fixer extension. After a reboot and a
desktop rebuild I fired up PageMaker and was able to print four files!!!
Before I wasn't able to print anything so I call this a big success.
I have to ask you though Leonard, why doesn't Adobe have anything about
these fixes on their web site? I know it's a Mac OS problem but it
seems to show up mostly in PageMaker which of course makes PageMaker
look bad.
______________________________________________________________________
Tom Roth Wake Forest University School of Medicine
tomroth@wfubmc.edu Dept of Biomedical Communications
http://www.wfubmc.edu/biomed/ Medical Center Blvd
Tel 336.716.4493 Winston-Salem, NC 27157-1011
______________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: DCHP-based Intranet (WinMac Digest #360 - 07/07/99)
From: "David McKnight" <dmcknight@fleetwood.com>
Date: Thu, 08 Jul 1999 13:21:02 -0700
Mime-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
If necessary, OS 8.6 allows for the inclusion of a DHCP Client
ID, which was not available in previous versions of the TCP/IP
control panel. If your IT group requires use of a hostname for
your workstation, this should do the job. Anybody out there have
personal experience with this feature in OS 8.6?
DAVID
David K. McKnight
Advertising & Public Relations Manager
Fleetwood RV
<mailto:dmcknight@fleetwood.com>
Fleetwood RV -- A Little of What Life's All About
See our web site at: <http://www.fleetwood.com>
Fleetwood is the World's Leading Provider
Of Recreational Vehicles & Manufactured Homes
P.O. Box 7638
Riverside, CA 92513-7638
2990 Myers Street
Riverside, CA 92503
(909) 351-3500
----------
>From: "The Windows-MacOS cooperation list"
<winmac@xerxes.frit.utexas.edu>
>To: "The Windows-MacOS cooperation list" <winmac@xerxes.frit.utexas.edu>
>Subject: WinMac Digest #360 - 07/07/99
>Date: Wed, Jul 7, 1999, 5:00 PM
>
> Recently an Intranet was set up which we are meant to access via DCHP.
> Try as I might no-one seems to know how the Macs in my department can
> be connected to this Intranet.
Subject: questions: NT vs. mac for small biz network
From: "tom lyczko" <tom@mail.visualwave.com>
Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 16:58:56 -0500
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
hello everyone...
please, i'm interested in information, but i also welcome opinions as well...
i work for a small company which is 60-70 mac, the rest windows...
they want to upgrade to an ethernet LAN, and they want to ensure that they can maintain their mac files' *integrity* (i.e. not get messed up in cross-platform file problems) in terms of getting documents ready for a professional printer, etc.
1. methinks that the type of network (NT or mac) should not affect this kind of thing at all, so long as tcp/ip is used in the lan over ethernet. am i correct???
2. my boss thinks NT is very complicated; he seems to want mac OS X bec it's supposedly stable...my question is whether all the unix etc. stuff stuck into mac OS X isn't equally complicated as NT????
3. lastly, have you found it easier to have mac clients on a NT lan or have you found it easier to have NT/Win 9x clients on a mac lan??
i do think that for a say, 10-15 node LAN, NT might be cheaper overall, given apple's tendency to charge premium prices for everything...
thank you!!!
:) tom
tom@visualwave.com
p.s. when i know more about all this stuff, hopefully i will also be able to offer advice, suggestions, ideas, etc. this is a good list! :)
Subject: Re: [WinMac] questions: NT vs. mac for small biz network
From: Michael Tjoa <mtjoa@hotjobs.com>
Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 17:26:43 -0400
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
=46or the last 5 years, we've been using NT as a file server for a 93% mac
network. NT doesn't have any problems as long as all you are going to use
it for is file sharing. Just turn on services for Mac and only connect to
it when you need to, and you should be ok. Mac OS X Server is pretty cool,
but we havn't tested the stability on an actual server, we only added to a
desktop machine to see how it would run.
We have approximately 100 computers in the office on a 10 Base-T network,
connecting to the internet via T1.
At 5:58 PM -0400 7/8/99, tom lyczko wrote:
>hello everyone...
>
>please, i'm interested in information, but i also welcome opinions as well.=
=2E.
>
>i work for a small company which is 60-70 mac, the rest windows...
>they want to upgrade to an ethernet LAN, and they want to ensure that they
>can maintain their mac files' *integrity* (i.e. not get messed up in
>cross-platform file problems) in terms of getting documents ready for a
>professional printer, etc.
>
>1. methinks that the type of network (NT or mac) should not affect this
>kind of thing at all, so long as tcp/ip is used in the lan over ethernet.
>am i correct???
>
>2. my boss thinks NT is very complicated; he seems to want mac OS X bec
>it's supposedly stable...my question is whether all the unix etc. stuff
>stuck into mac OS X isn't equally complicated as NT????
>
>3. lastly, have you found it easier to have mac clients on a NT lan or
>have you found it easier to have NT/Win 9x clients on a mac lan??
>
>i do think that for a say, 10-15 node LAN, NT might be cheaper overall,
>given apple's tendency to charge premium prices for everything...
>
>thank you!!!
>
>:) tom
>tom@visualwave.com
>
>p.s. when i know more about all this stuff, hopefully i will also be able
>to offer advice, suggestions, ideas, etc. this is a good list! :)
>
>* Windows-MacOS Cooperation List *
- Michael Y. Tjoa
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------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: RE: [WinMac] questions: NT vs. mac for small biz network
From: mark maytum <mark.maytum@pompy.com>
Date: 08 Jul 99 17:28:34 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-Ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Reply to: RE: [WinMac] questions: NT vs. mac for small biz network
Well, my 2c:
We have almost exactly the same size network as you - 70 macs, 15 NT boxes....
I wouldn't want to have to pick *one* server platform for both macs & pcs. We run both ASIP/AEFW and NT servers. It's the combination of servers that allow the respective clients to work well together. PC's would be second class citizens on our network without a PDC & roaming user profiles. Macs would lose a lot of their functionality without an AtEase/AppleShare server.
However, I should mention that our marketing and graphics depts. are 100% mac, I don't really have to futz with xplatform issues there. Other than that, we use FileMaker, GreatPlains Dynamics, Office 97/98, and LotusNotes. Haven't had any showstopping issues with any of them. No matter what computer you sit down at, you've got all your stuff - and the applications all look alike too.
We've just started evaluating OSX Server and it *does* look pretty cool. Maybe others will chime in about this. Personally, I want to know more UNIX before I start relying on the thing.
But if you're going to install a new network, you'll have *plenty* to do before you even get down to setting up servers :-)
HTH
Mark Maytum
Pompanoosuc Mills Corporation
tom lyczko wrote:
>hello everyone...
>
>please, i'm interested in information, but i also welcome opinions as well...
>
>i work for a small company which is 60-70 mac, the rest windows...
>they want to upgrade to an ethernet LAN, and they want to ensure that they >can maintain their mac files' *integrity* (i.e. not get messed up in >cross-platform file problems) in terms of getting documents ready for a professional printer, etc.
>
>1. methinks that the type of network (NT or mac) should not affect this >kind of thing at all, so long as tcp/ip is used in the lan over ethernet. am i correct???
>
>2. my boss thinks NT is very complicated; he seems to want mac OS X bec >it's supposedly stable...my question is whether all the unix etc. stuff stuck into >mac OS X isn't equally complicated as NT????
>
>3. lastly, have you found it easier to have mac clients on a NT lan or have >you found it easier to have NT/Win 9x clients on a mac lan??
>
>i do think that for a say, 10-15 node LAN, NT might be cheaper overall, >given apple's tendency to charge premium prices for everything...
>
>thank you!!!
>
>:) tom
>tom@visualwave.com
>
>p.s. when i know more about all this stuff, hopefully i will also be able >to offer advice, suggestions, ideas, etc. this is a good list! :)
>
Subject: RE: [WinMac] questions: NT vs. mac for small biz network
From: mark maytum <mark.maytum@pompy.com>
Date: 08 Jul 99 17:28:34 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="==53545257495153494951=
--==53545257495153494951=Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-Ascii"
Reply to: RE: [WinMac] questions: NT vs. mac for small biz network
Well, my 2c:
We have almost exactly the same size network as you - 70 macs, 15 NT boxes....
I wouldn't want to have to pick *one* server platform for both macs & pcs. We run both ASIP/AEFW and NT servers. It's the combination of servers that allow the respective clients to work well together. PC's would be second class citizens on our network without a PDC & roaming user profiles. Macs would lose a lot of their functionality without an AtEase/AppleShare server.
However, I should mention that our marketing and graphics depts. are 100% mac, I don't really have to futz with xplatform issues there. Other than that, we use FileMaker, GreatPlains Dynamics, Office 97/98, and LotusNotes. Haven't had any showstopping issues with any of them. No matter what computer you sit down at, you've got all your stuff - and the applications all look alike too.
We've just started evaluating OSX Server and it *does* look pretty cool. Maybe others will chime in about this. Personally, I want to know more UNIX before I start relying on the thing.
But if you're going to install a new network, you'll have *plenty* to do before you even get down to setting up servers :-)
HTH
Mark Maytum
Pompanoosuc Mills Corporation
tom lyczko wrote:
>hello everyone...
>
>please, i'm interested in information, but i also welcome opinions as well...
>
>i work for a small company which is 60-70 mac, the rest windows...
>they want to upgrade to an ethernet LAN, and they want to ensure that they >can maintain their mac files' *integrity* (i.e. not get messed up in >cross-platform file problems) in terms of getting documents ready for a professional printer, etc.
>
>1. methinks that the type of network (NT or mac) should not affect this >kind of thing at all, so long as tcp/ip is used in the lan over ethernet. am i correct???
>
>2. my boss thinks NT is very complicated; he seems to want mac OS X bec >it's supposedly stable...my question is whether all the unix etc. stuff stuck into >mac OS X isn't equally complicated as NT????
>
>3. lastly, have you found it easier to have mac clients on a NT lan or have >you found it easier to have NT/Win 9x clients on a mac lan??
>
>i do think that for a say, 10-15 node LAN, NT might be cheaper overall, >given apple's tendency to charge premium prices for everything...
>
>thank you!!!
>
>:) tom
>tom@visualwave.com
>
>p.s. when i know more about all this stuff, hopefully i will also be able >to offer advice, suggestions, ideas, etc. this is a good list! :)
>
--==53545257495153494951=Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-Ascii"
Reply to: RE: [WinMac] questions: NT vs. mac for small biz network
Well, my 2c:
We have almost exactly the same size network as you - 70 macs, 15 NT boxes....
I wouldn't want to have to pick *one* server platform for both macs & pcs. We run both ASIP/AEFW and NT servers. It's the combination of servers that allow the respective clients to work well together. PC's would be second class citizens on our network without a PDC & roaming user profiles. Macs would lose a lot of their functionality without an AtEase/AppleShare server.
However, I should mention that our marketing and graphics depts. are 100% mac, I don't really have to futz with xplatform issues there. Other than that, we use FileMaker, GreatPlains Dynamics, Office 97/98, and LotusNotes. Haven't had any showstopping issues with any of them. No matter what computer you sit down at, you've got all your stuff - and the applications all look alike too.
We've just started evaluating OSX Server and it *does* look pretty cool. Maybe others will chime in about this. Personally, I want to know more UNIX before I start relying on the thing.
But if you're going to install a new network, you'll have *plenty* to do before you even get down to setting up servers :-)
HTH
Mark Maytum
Pompanoosuc Mills Corporation
tom lyczko wrote:
>hello everyone...
>
>please, i'm interested in information, but i also welcome opinions as well...
>
>i work for a small company which is 60-70 mac, the rest windows...
>they want to upgrade to an ethernet LAN, and they want to ensure that they
>can maintain their mac files' *integrity* (i.e. not get messed up in
>cross-platform file problems) in terms of getting documents ready for a professional printer, etc.
>
>1. methinks that the type of network (NT or mac) should not affect this
>kind of thing at all, so long as tcp/ip is used in the lan over ethernet. am i correct???
>
>2. my boss thinks NT is very complicated; he seems to want mac OS X bec
>it's supposedly stable...my question is whether all the unix etc. stuff stuck into
>mac OS X isn't equally complicated as NT????
>
>3. lastly, have you found it easier to have mac clients on a NT lan or have
>you found it easier to have NT/Win 9x clients on a mac lan??
>
>i do think that for a say, 10-15 node LAN, NT might be cheaper overall,
>given apple's tendency to charge premium prices for everything...
>
>thank you!!!
>
>:) tom
>tom@visualwave.com
>
>p.s. when i know more about all this stuff, hopefully i will also be able
>to offer advice, suggestions, ideas, etc. this is a good list! :)
>
--==53545257495153494951=-
Subject: Re: [WinMac] questions: NT vs. mac for small biz network
From: Michael bartosh
Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 18:09:42 -0500
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"
>hello everyone...
>
>please, i'm interested in information, but i also welcome opinions as well...
>
>i work for a small company which is 60-70 mac, the rest windows...
>they want to upgrade to an ethernet LAN, and they want to ensure
>that they can maintain their mac files' *integrity* (i.e. not get
>messed up in cross-platform file problems) in terms of getting
>documents ready for a professional printer, etc.
>
>1. methinks that the type of network (NT or mac) should not affect
>this kind of thing at all, so long as tcp/ip is used in the lan over
>ethernet. am i correct???
If you are planning to use Appletalk- which is IMHO highly desirable-
NT does not do Appletalk over IP without a somewhat pricey add on.
>
>2. my boss thinks NT is very complicated; he seems to want mac OS X
>bec it's supposedly stable...my question is whether all the unix
>etc. stuff stuck into mac OS X isn't equally complicated as NT????
NT is more complicated than any unix I have ever found in that it's
quirkey. Unix problems come from lack of knowledge more than anyhting
else- NT's quirks tend to sneak up on you. I am a Mac user at heart
and always have been. I was exposed to NT about the same time I was
exposed to Unix, and I have no questions about which one has been
more contentious.
>
>3. lastly, have you found it easier to have mac clients on a NT lan
>or have you found it easier to have NT/Win 9x clients on a mac lan??
AppleShare IP's service to PC's is, without question, 10x simpler
than Services for Macintosh.
>
>i do think that for a say, 10-15 node LAN, NT might be cheaper
>overall, given apple's tendency to charge premium prices for
>everything...
Since MacOS X Server is $500 for _unlimited_ clients, I do not think
this should be a concern.
>
>thank you!!!
>
>:) tom
>tom@visualwave.com
>
>p.s. when i know more about all this stuff, hopefully i will also be
>able to offer advice, suggestions, ideas, etc. this is a good list!
>:)
>
>* Windows-MacOS Cooperation List *
* Windows-MacOS Cooperation List *