Re: Choosing a WinMac server
Daniel L. Schwartz(expresso[at]snip.net)
Wed, 02 Jun 1999 16:29:54 -0400
WinMac Digest #330 - Wednesday, June 2, 1999
Re: [WinMac] X->Unix, was Thanks and Another Question
by <CHoogendyk@aol.com>
Re(2): [WinMac] Choosing a WinMac server
by "Roger" <tornberg@geo.su.se>
Re: Re(2): Choosing a WinMac server
by "Daniel L. Schwartz" <expresso@snip.net>
OT: RFC, Moderator needed
by "John C. Welch" <jwelch@aer.com>
FW: Thanks and Another Question
by "Scott Nishimura" <Scott.Nishimura@trw.com>
Re: Re: Re(2): Choosing a WinMac server
by "Daniel L. Schwartz" <expresso@snip.net>
Re: FW: Thanks and Another Question
by "Daniel L. Schwartz" <expresso@snip.net>
Re: [WinMac] FW: Thanks and Another Question
by "Darryl Lee" <lee@darryl.com>
Re: [WinMac] FW: Thanks and Another Question
by "Bruce Johnson" <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU>
Re: [WinMac] FW: Thanks and Another Question
by "Curtis Wilcox" <cwcx@uhura.cc.rochester.edu>
Re: [WinMac] Choosing a WinMac server
by "John C. Welch" <jwelch@aer.com>
Re: Choosing a WinMac server
by "Daniel L. Schwartz" <expresso@snip.net>
Subject: Re: [WinMac] X->Unix, was Thanks and Another Question
From: CHoogendyk@aol.com
Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 08:33:19 EDT
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>Depends on what you want to do. We are using MacX to access a XWindows
>front end to our database and it works fine.
>>
>> Does anyone know about MacX the software for interacting with Xwindows
>> on Unix? I was wondering if it would help me interact with the Unix crowd
>> with more efficiency?
I'll second the "Depends".
I have eXodus from White Pine Software (similar to MacX). I happened to like
White Pine. Anyway, as I have learned more about Unix, I have found that
BetterTelnet serves my purposes better. It's a smaller footprint on my Mac
system (both screen space and memory). I have multiple sessions open to
multiple servers at once. I work as root fairly often, and we don't allow
root to login remotely. If I log in to X as myself, then all the graphical
stuff is based on my access. In a telnet session, I su to root after logging
in as myself.
So, for Unix work requiring access and knowledge of Unix (or learning Unix),
I would say BetterTelnet is better. For specific applications (such as CAD)
where no real Unix access is required, X is going to be better.
Chris Hoogendyk
Network Specialist
UMass Library, Amherst
Subject: Re(2): [WinMac] Choosing a WinMac server
From: "Roger" <tornberg@geo.su.se>
Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 15:01:30 +0200
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
OK the topic is a bit old by now, but I've got some comments on the ASIP
SMB support. Don't know much about protocolls behind it, but ASIP wasn't
really as great as I thought it would be. I made the following exercise.
Got myself three files.
1. test.doc
2. test =E5=E4=F6.doc (containing swedish characters and a space)
3. a file with 36 characters and a space.
Tried to copy these files from a Win 95 machine to a B/W G3 running Mac OS
8.5.1 and ASIP 6.1.1 and then copy them back. Had no problems with 1st
file. Wasn't able to copy the 2nd file back to the Win95 maching though I
was able to copy it to the G3. The 3rd file was a total failiure, I wasn't
even able to copy the 3rd file to the G3 in the first place.
The way I see it the windows support is not good at all. I would have
expected the 3rd file to encounter some problems (file name being cut or
the problem I actually had). However, having problems with swedish
characters and spaces is way below my expectations.
Explanations, solutions or comments anyone?
/Roger
>winmac@xerxes.frit.utexas.edu writes:
>>For something that small I'ld suggest AppleShare IP. It's easy to set
>>up and administer and you can buy a client for the Windows computers. It
>>runs everything that you'll need and almost anyone can manage to install
>>and administer it.
>
>I would agree with the recommendation, but if your needs are for file
>services then you won't need any extra client software-- AppleShareIP
>supports Windows clients via SMB. What kind of printers do you have on
>your LAN?
Subject: Re: Re(2): Choosing a WinMac server
From: "Daniel L. Schwartz" <expresso@snip.net>
Date: Wed, 02 Jun 1999 09:32:16 -0400
Mime-Version: 1.0
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I guess Indy 500® champion "Kenny Bräck" will have to have his name
spelled phonetically as "Kenny Breck" on the Mac! :)
Cheers!
Dan
At 03:01 PM 6/2/99 +0200, you wrote:
>OK the topic is a bit old by now, but I've got some comments on the ASIP
>SMB support. Don't know much about protocolls behind it, but ASIP wasn't
>really as great as I thought it would be. I made the following exercise.
>
>Got myself three files.
> 1. test.doc
> 2. test åäö.doc (containing swedish characters and a space)
> 3. a file with 36 characters and a space.
Subject: OT: RFC, Moderator needed
From: "John C. Welch" <jwelch@aer.com>
Date: Wed, 02 Jun 1999 13:01:58 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Hi all, MacWorld New York is coming up, and there is need of a moderator
for a session entitled "Unique Aspects of Managing the MacOS". If anyone
has an interest, and better yet experience in doing something like this,
please email me at jwelch@aer.com
Thanks!
Subject: FW: Thanks and Another Question
From: Scott Nishimura <Scott.Nishimura@trw.com>
Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 10:09:01 -0700
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Phil,
What do you want to accomplish by establishing an X session
with the UNIX boxes? If you're doing remote administration,
most of that can be done with a simple telnet session. If
you want to run graphical programs, you'll need an X package.
I've used both MacX from Apple and eXodus from White Pine.
Most of the feedback I've gotten from other people is that
eXodus is a better package (of course, I gathered the feedback
several years ago so things might have changed since then).
The last version of MacX I used
was something like v1.2; this was before it got farmed out
to a firm called Xoftware (?) and then folded back into Apple
for v1.5. I have no idea what version they're up to now, but
IMHO, it seems like Apple is playing hot potato with MacX like
they did with most of the Claris products.
I don't know if there's a freeware/shareware X package for
the Mac. X software is not generally cheap...
Also, check to make sure they support at least X11/R6
("X11 Release Level").
Scott
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Phil Sutton [mailto:phils@sbinet.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, June 01, 1999 6:32 AM
> Subject: Thanks and Another Question
>
>
>
> Thanks for your responses to my "Mac Alone" message. Now
> another question.
>
> Does anyone know about MacX the software for interacting with
> Xwindows on
> Unix? I was wondering if it would help me interact with the
> Unix crowd with
> more efficiency?
>
> Respectfully,
>
> Phil S.
>
Subject: Re: Re: Re(2): Choosing a WinMac server
From: "Daniel L. Schwartz" <expresso@snip.net>
Date: Wed, 02 Jun 1999 10:56:37 -0400
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/enriched; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On a more serious note about the original post, let's try to find out
*why* Roger's test #2 "partially" failed. I would suspect that the space
could actually be part of the problem: There are several ASCII
implementations of the space on the (U.S. English) Mac, including the
Option-Space (non-breaking space); plus the en-space and em-space in
PageMaker & Quack.
Here are some important questions you need to examine:
1) Which code page are you using on the PC?
2) Which version(s) of win 95 & MacOS are you using? Are you using U.S.
English, International English, or localized (Swedish) version(s) of ASIP
6.1.1, MacOS 8.5.1, and/or Win 95?
3) Are these versions all in sync, i.e. are you using the Swedish
version of `95 vs. the Int'l versions of ASIP & MacOS?
4) Were any of these issues fixed in MacOS 8.6? Win 95 v2.1? What about
a win 98 client, patched to the latest fixes?
5) Does this problem reproduce when you hook up an NT4/workstation box
(or an NT/Server box with AppleTalk disabled) as a client to the ASIP
server?
You raised some interesting issues about ASIP, and they are complicated
to a degree by the fact that you (probably) are running International
versions; and unfortunately international versions of software have extra
bugs that are harder to weed out - Or not fixed - during beta testing,
due to the smaller demand Let's face it: If you are Micros~1 or Apple,
and you need to push an OS out the door, you'll be a LOT more concerned
about swatting bugs in the English versions than in the less ubiquitous
Swedish version.
Cheers!
Dan
PS: It was funny on Sunday afternoon when Kenny Br=E4ck was talking to the
King of Sweden from Victory Lane, and he had to cut the king short
because A.J. wanted him. When Br=E4ck said he was on the phone with the
King of Sweden, he was told he was wanted by the "King of Houston!" :)
At 09:32 AM 6/2/99 -0400, I wrote:
>
> I guess Indy 500=AE champion "Kenny Br=E4ck" will have to have his name
>spelled phonetically as "Kenny Breck" on the Mac! :)
>
> Cheers!
> Dan
>
>At 03:01 PM 6/2/99 +0200, "Roger" <<tornberg@geo.su.se> wrote (entire
message quoted for clarity):
>>>>
<excerpt>>
>OK the topic is a bit old by now, but I've got some comments on the
ASIP
>SMB support. Don't know much about protocolls behind it, but ASIP
wasn't
>really as great as I thought it would be. I made the following
exercise.
>
>Got myself three files.
> 1. test.doc
> 2. test =E5=E4=F6.doc (containing swedish characters and a space)
> 3. a file with 36 characters and a space.
>
>Tried to copy these files from a Win 95 machine to a B/W G3 running Mac
OS
>8.5.1 and ASIP 6.1.1 and then copy them back. Had no problems with 1st
>file. Wasn't able to copy the 2nd file back to the Win95 maching though
I
>was able to copy it to the G3. The 3rd file was a total failiure, I
wasn't
>even able to copy the 3rd file to the G3 in the first place.
>
>The way I see it the windows support is not good at all. I would have
>expected the 3rd file to encounter some problems (file name being cut
or
>the problem I actually had). However, having problems with swedish
>characters and spaces is way below my expectations.
>
>Explanations, solutions or comments anyone?
>
>/Roger
>
>>winmac@xerxes.frit.utexas.edu writes:
>>>For something that small I'ld suggest AppleShare IP. It's easy to
set
>>>up and administer and you can buy a client for the Windows computers.=20
It
>>>runs everything that you'll need and almost anyone can manage to
install
>>>and administer it.
>>
>>I would agree with the recommendation, but if your needs are for file
>>services then you won't need any extra client software-- AppleShareIP
>>supports Windows clients via SMB. What kind of printers do you have
on
>>your LAN?
>
>
</excerpt><<<<<<<<
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Subject: Re: FW: Thanks and Another Question
From: "Daniel L. Schwartz" <expresso@snip.net>
Date: Wed, 02 Jun 1999 13:20:36 -0400
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Phil and Scott; and others:
Why not post this to a Linux listserv or newsgroup... They can probably
steer you to an open source application that will suit your needs just
fine... And cost nothing, to boot!
[No "flaming" intended here - It's just that the general direction of this
"WinMac" list is a bit more towards Micros~1 Windows, and not really
X-Windows!] :)
A good starting point is <http://www.redhat.com>, since a few weeks ago
they started to transform their site into a Linux portal. [Probably to
"suck in" a few Internet Portal stock - crazed investors!]. Another good
starting point may just be the MkLinux pages on Apple's site...
Cheers!
Dan
At 10:09 AM 6/2/99 -0700, you wrote:
>Phil,
>
> What do you want to accomplish by establishing an X session
>with the UNIX boxes? If you're doing remote administration,
>most of that can be done with a simple telnet session. If
>you want to run graphical programs, you'll need an X package.
>
> I've used both MacX from Apple and eXodus from White Pine.
>Most of the feedback I've gotten from other people is that
>eXodus is a better package (of course, I gathered the feedback
>several years ago so things might have changed since then).
>
> The last version of MacX I used
>was something like v1.2; this was before it got farmed out
>to a firm called Xoftware (?) and then folded back into Apple
>for v1.5. I have no idea what version they're up to now, but
>IMHO, it seems like Apple is playing hot potato with MacX like
>they did with most of the Claris products.
>
> I don't know if there's a freeware/shareware X package for
>the Mac. X software is not generally cheap...
>
> Also, check to make sure they support at least X11/R6
>("X11 Release Level").
>
>Scott
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Phil Sutton [mailto:phils@sbinet.com]
>> Sent: Tuesday, June 01, 1999 6:32 AM
>> Subject: Thanks and Another Question
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks for your responses to my "Mac Alone" message. Now
>> another question.
>>
>> Does anyone know about MacX the software for interacting with
>> Xwindows on
>> Unix? I was wondering if it would help me interact with the
>> Unix crowd with
>> more efficiency?
>>
>> Respectfully,
>>
>> Phil S.
Subject: Re: [WinMac] FW: Thanks and Another Question
From: "Darryl Lee" <lee@darryl.com>
Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 11:20:09 -0700 (PDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Phil asked about:
> > Xwindows on Unix? I was wondering if it would help me interact with the
> > Unix crowd with more efficiency?
Scott wrote:
> I don't know if there's a freeware/shareware X package for
> the Mac. X software is not generally cheap...
Here's one: http://www.microimages.com/freestuf/mix/
It may not be the best, but i do recall that it worked.
But i think Scott's right about trying to figure out what you actually
want to *do* with the Unix crowd? Telnet will give you command-line
access to a Unix server, which is oftentimes plenty. X just gives you
a GUI to Unix. i don't thinks it makes your interactions any more
_efficient_. Do you need to get to files on the Unix server? Then
you'll need an NFS client (or maybe you could get the Unix gurus to
install netatalk, an Appletalk File Server for Unix.)
But it all depends on what you want to do.
Oh, and um, no offense Dan, but i don't think Linux or even MkLinux
will really help Phil here. Unless he wants to reboot his Mac
whenever he wants to interact with the Unix world. >:P
--Darryl
Subject: Re: [WinMac] FW: Thanks and Another Question
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU>
Date: Wed, 02 Jun 1999 11:22:13 -0700
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Micro-X Windows is a freeware X windows package for the Mac (and PC's)
It works with Digital Unix 4.04 I had to do an install of some database
software on our Unix box, and the 14" monitor on the thing didn't have
enough space on it for me to reach the buttons on the GUI installer, so
I downloaded the software, installed it, got it running and installed
the stuff on the server, in about an hour, all told, most of whihc time
was doing the actual software install on the Unix box.
It's available at:
http://www.microimages.com/freestuf/mix/
Scott Nishimura wrote:
>
> Phil,
>
> What do you want to accomplish by establishing an X session
> with the UNIX boxes? If you're doing remote administration,
> most of that can be done with a simple telnet session. If
> you want to run graphical programs, you'll need an X package.
>
> I've used both MacX from Apple and eXodus from White Pine.
> Most of the feedback I've gotten from other people is that
> eXodus is a better package (of course, I gathered the feedback
> several years ago so things might have changed since then).
>
> The last version of MacX I used
> was something like v1.2; this was before it got farmed out
> to a firm called Xoftware (?) and then folded back into Apple
> for v1.5. I have no idea what version they're up to now, but
> IMHO, it seems like Apple is playing hot potato with MacX like
> they did with most of the Claris products.
>
> I don't know if there's a freeware/shareware X package for
> the Mac. X software is not generally cheap...
>
> Also, check to make sure they support at least X11/R6
> ("X11 Release Level").
>
> Scott
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Phil Sutton [mailto:phils@sbinet.com]
> > Sent: Tuesday, June 01, 1999 6:32 AM
> > Subject: Thanks and Another Question
> >
> >
> >
> > Thanks for your responses to my "Mac Alone" message. Now
> > another question.
> >
> > Does anyone know about MacX the software for interacting with
> > Xwindows on
> > Unix? I was wondering if it would help me interact with the
> > Unix crowd with
> > more efficiency?
> >
> > Respectfully,
> >
> > Phil S.
> >
>
> * Windows-MacOS Cooperation List *
--
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group
Subject: Re: [WinMac] FW: Thanks and Another Question
From: Curtis Wilcox <cwcx@uhura.cc.rochester.edu>
Date: Wed, 02 Jun 1999 14:20:59 -0400
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 10:09 AM 6/2/99 -0700, Scott Nishimura wrote:
>Phil,
>
> What do you want to accomplish by establishing an X session
>with the UNIX boxes? If you're doing remote administration,
>most of that can be done with a simple telnet session. If
>you want to run graphical programs, you'll need an X package.
>
> I've used both MacX from Apple and eXodus from White Pine.
>Most of the feedback I've gotten from other people is that
>eXodus is a better package (of course, I gathered the feedback
>several years ago so things might have changed since then).
>
> The last version of MacX I used
>was something like v1.2; this was before it got farmed out
>to a firm called Xoftware (?) and then folded back into Apple
>for v1.5. I have no idea what version they're up to now, but
>IMHO, it seems like Apple is playing hot potato with MacX like
>they did with most of the Claris products.
>
> I don't know if there's a freeware/shareware X package for
>the Mac. X software is not generally cheap...
>
> Also, check to make sure they support at least X11/R6
>("X11 Release Level").
>
>Scott
I don't know the details of what is supports but if you want "free" there's
MI/X <http://www.microimages.com/freestuf/mix/>
--
Curtis Wilcox cwcx@ats.rochester.edu
Desktop Systems Consultant 716/274-1160
Eastman School of Music Pager: x12-3290
Subject: Re: [WinMac] Choosing a WinMac server
From: "John C. Welch" <jwelch@aer.com>
Date: Wed, 02 Jun 1999 16:13:47 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Comments inline
Roger wrote:
>=20
> OK the topic is a bit old by now, but I've got some comments on the ASI=
P
> SMB support. Don't know much about protocolls behind it, but ASIP wasn=
't
> really as great as I thought it would be. I made the following exercise.
>=20
> Got myself three files.
> 1. test.doc
> 2. test =E5=E4=F6.doc (containing swedish characters and a space=
)
This is almost a guaranteed fail. umlauts and the rest are all using the
upper ASCII set, and this not only can change RADICALLY between
Operating systems, but between fonts as well. Font issues are a problem
across platform, and this is a classroom example.
> 3. a file with 36 characters and a space.
ASIP is Mac, macs have a 31 character filename limit, and spaces are a
perfectly allowable filename. Of course this one was going to fail,
HOWEVER, if you really need longer filename support, the latest beta of
Maxum's FTP server RUMPUS supports 240 character filenames, and up to
255 character file/pathnames. The downside to this is that the longer
names are ONLY available to you via FTP, not SMB or anything else, and
ONLY through RUMPUS. (http://www.maxum.com/). But seriously, complaining
about the current incarnation of the MacOS not doing >31 - character
filenames is like complaining that a car can't fly.
John
>=20
> Tried to copy these files from a Win 95 machine to a B/W G3 running Mac=
OS
> 8.5.1 and ASIP 6.1.1 and then copy them back. Had no problems with 1st
> file. Wasn't able to copy the 2nd file back to the Win95 maching though=
I
> was able to copy it to the G3. The 3rd file was a total failiure, I was=
n't
> even able to copy the 3rd file to the G3 in the first place.
>=20
> The way I see it the windows support is not good at all. I would have
> expected the 3rd file to encounter some problems (file name being cut o=
r
> the problem I actually had). However, having problems with swedish
> characters and spaces is way below my expectations.
>=20
> Explanations, solutions or comments anyone?
>=20
> /Roger
>=20
> >winmac@xerxes.frit.utexas.edu writes:
> >>For something that small I'ld suggest AppleShare IP. It's easy to se=
t
> >>up and administer and you can buy a client for the Windows computers.=
It
> >>runs everything that you'll need and almost anyone can manage to inst=
all
> >>and administer it.
> >
> >I would agree with the recommendation, but if your needs are for file
> >services then you won't need any extra client software-- AppleShareIP
> >supports Windows clients via SMB. What kind of printers do you have o=
n
> >your LAN?
>=20
> * Windows-MacOS Cooperation List *
Subject: Re: Choosing a WinMac server
From: "Daniel L. Schwartz" <expresso@snip.net>
Date: Wed, 02 Jun 1999 16:29:54 -0400
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Comments following:
At 04:13 PM 6/2/99 -0400, "John C. Welch" <jwelch@aer.com> wrote:
>Comments inline
>
>Roger wrote:
>>
>> OK the topic is a bit old by now, but I've got some comments on the ASIP
>> SMB support. Don't know much about protocolls behind it, but ASIP wasn't
>> really as great as I thought it would be. I made the following exercise.
>>
>> Got myself three files.
>> 1. test.doc
>> 2. test åäö.doc (containing swedish characters and a space)
>
>This is almost a guaranteed fail. umlauts and the rest are all using the
>upper ASCII set, and this not only can change RADICALLY between
>Operating systems, but between fonts as well. Font issues are a problem
>across platform, and this is a classroom example.
I respectfully (but only partially) disagree: I believe it's more of a
code page issue than a platform issue, as even *most* upper-level
characters (i.e. characters with ASCII values above 127) still match up.
With the code page issue comes different language support, i.e. if one has
a U.S. English version of the underlying OS' (MacOS & windoze 95 in this
case), then all should pretty well line up. [I'll have to fire up
Fontographer to verify this...] Where it can get squirrely is when one is
using a non-English version of the OS; or worse yet mixing languages. THIS
is the jumping-off point where I started asking Roger
<mailto:tornberg@geo.su.se> questions about language versions he is using.
In any case, it's worth noting that NT's Services for Mac (SFM) gracefully
handles Mac files & folders with illegal DOS characters, such as /?\|*.
[Balance cut]
Cheers!
Dan
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