Re: Problem Reporting [Was: Mac OS 8.6]
Daniel L. Schwartz(expresso[at]snip.net)
Thu, 27 May 1999 15:24:43 -0500
WinMac Digest #324 - Thursday, May 27, 1999
Re: SoftWindows
by "Daniel L. Schwartz" <expresso@snip.net>
Re: Mac OS 8.6
by "Alex Dearden" <pata@tampabay.rr.com>
Re: chosing a server
by "Alex Dearden" <pata@tampabay.rr.com>
Re: Mac OS 8.6
by "Alex Dearden" <pata@tampabay.rr.com>
Re: Change a Mac's SCSI controller ID# ?
by "Alex Dearden" <pata@tampabay.rr.com>
Re: [WinMac] Macintosh services under NT 5
by "Daniel L. Schwartz" <expresso@snip.net>
Re: Appleshare IP error -29626
by "Aaron Ciesar" <aciesar@stroke.upmc.edu>
Problem Reporting [Was: Mac OS 8.6]
by "David Bell" <db28@alphainfo.co.uk>
Re: [WinMac] Re: Change a Mac's SCSI controller ID# ?
by "Tom Roth" <tomroth@wfubmc.edu>
Re: [WinMac] Mac OS 8.6
by "John C. Welch" <jwelch@aer.com>
Re: [WinMac] Mac OS 8.6
by "Daniel L. Schwartz" <expresso@snip.net>
Speaking of NT drivers...
by "Daniel L. Schwartz" <expresso@snip.net>
Re: Problem Reporting [Was: Mac OS 8.6]
by "Daniel L. Schwartz" <expresso@snip.net>
Subject: Re: SoftWindows
From: "Daniel L. Schwartz" <expresso@snip.net>
Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 21:54:24 -0500
Mime-Version: 1.0
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I highly recommend VirtualPC over SoftWindows: Although
Micros~1 licensed
the windows source code to Insignia, Connectix is FAR better in actually
understanding how the PowerPC Macs work. Just look at the lawsuit against
them by Sony (Nintendo?)... Those guys hit a raw nerve!
In any case, you CAN run NT under VirtualPC... Just ask Chris H! :)
Cheers!
Dan
Subject: Re: Mac OS 8.6
From: Alex Dearden <pata@tampabay.rr.com>
Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 21:54:39 -0500
Mime-Version: 1.0
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> Hmmm, let's see: I didn't have to reinstall any drivers when installing
>NT4's Service Pack 2, 3, 4, & 5
Well, SP5 just killed my brand new install of NT workstation 4. Of course
I was very trusting (stupid) and didn't backup before installing but I
figured, what the heck I've just reformated the hard drive and am using
an NTFS partition so I should be ok. Turns out I have to use 98 for a
while until I find the time to reformat and reinstall everything again.
And that's not the only machine in our network that SP5 has killed.
I've never had such a severe problem with any Mac I've dealt with when
updating OSs.
Alex Dearden
MCSE
pata@doglover.com
Subject: Re: chosing a server
From: Alex Dearden <pata@tampabay.rr.com>
Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 21:54:41 -0500
Mime-Version: 1.0
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> For something that small I'ld suggest AppleShare IP. It's easy to set
>up and administer and you can buy a client for the Windows computers. It
>runs everything that you'll need and almost anyone can manage to install
>and administer it.
You don't need to buy a client. Appleshare IP 6 comes with services for
windows (SMB).
And I agree. For something that small Unix is overkill and Nt will be
harder to administer.
Alex Dearden
MCSE
pata@doglover.com
Subject: Re: Mac OS 8.6
From: Alex Dearden <pata@tampabay.rr.com>
Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 21:54:45 -0500
Mime-Version: 1.0
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>The only reason that ANY disk
>driver needed to be updated for 8.x was to support HFS+ - otherwise,
>nothing has changed.
Not exactly true. Os 8.6 has REPORTED (although I haven't seen them, yet)
incompatibility issues with Hard Disk Toolkit's drivers. You have to get
the upgrade to HDT 3.02...
Alex Dearden
MCSE
pata@doglover.com
Subject: Re: Change a Mac's SCSI controller ID# ?
From: Alex Dearden <pata@tampabay.rr.com>
Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 21:54:47 -0500
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"
>How about if you have a dual, internal, SCSI bus Mac,
This is true. Some Macs came with a different controller (on the
motherboard) for the internal chain and the external chain. The 500
series (7500, etc) was that way. What Macs do you have?
Alex Dearden
MCSE
pata@doglover.com
Subject: Re: [WinMac] Macintosh services under NT 5
From: "Daniel L. Schwartz" <expresso@snip.net>
Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 22:37:11 -0500
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Dear Mr. Bizer, and all other WinMac recipients:
If you (Marc Bizer) are going to flame me and/or plagiarize
my copyright material and/or impugn my professional reputation,
please have the decency to attribute it to the proper source.
I'll reply inline to the various drivel your "expert friend
of mine" spouted...
At 04:18 PM 5/26/99 -0500, Marc Bizer wrote:
>Hello everyone,
>
> A winmac subscriber's recent post about a complex procedure
>to follow for properly installing Macintosh services under NT 5
>surprised me by their redundancy, and I checked this information with
>an expert friend of mine, who recommended the
>WINNT-L@PEACH.EASE.LSOFT.COM list for NT-only discussions. I'm
>appending what he wrote.
>
> --Marc
>
>He [The Winmac subscriber] wrote
That's Dan Schwartz <mailto:expresso@snip.net>
>>1) NT/Server 4, basic services only
>>2) Diskeeper, then defrag;
>>3) RDISK /S
>>4) Service Pack 5 (make a shortcut & put it on the Desktop)
>>5) Services For Macintosh, and SNMP;
>>6) SP5 again;
>>7) RDISK /S
>>8) Run Diskeeper to defrag again.
>
>>If you want to throw in IIS4, do it between steps 5 & 6.
>
>
>Well, you apply services for Mac on the initial install then the service
>pack updates it, so no need to apply the service pack twice.
This is patently false. SFM under the original NT4/Server (no
SP* distribution CD) had so many bugs that it was more important to
add SP3 first... Especially if you were upgrading an NT/S 3.51/SP4
installation.
On paper it's redundant. BUT, if the NTFS volumes were
formatted during an NT 3.51 session this becomes critical, as the
defrag API's changed drastically.
Also, running RDSIK /S is the "escape hatch" that is used to
"unwind" any damage caused by a rogue .DLL or botched Service Pack
installation. Please see the Read-Me's - Or even the licence text one
must agree to before installing - for ANY Service Pack.
Lastly, running Diskeeper helps maintain the NTFS structures,
especially the MFT (Master File Table, for the uninitiated) in the
event an NTFS volume becomes overloaded by temporary files. NTFS
performance will fall off drastically when an NTFS volume is over 75%
full; or when it becomes fragmented - Especially when the cluster
size is 512 bytes...Which is the ONLY option when using the CONVERT
function.
>Same for IIS.
>RDISK is just a standard emergency boot disk, that one creates multiple time
>primarily when changing or adding hardware.
I don't know which "expert" told you this, but in fact,
according to Microsoft, you should run RDISK *before* making *any*
changes to your system - Hardware .OR. software.
>BTW, the Compaq servers are
>generally sold with an automated build of Windows NT, including the service
>packs, so one generally does not go through this install stuff unless you
>are using a pirated copy of NT server. All this defragging stuff
>(DiskKeeper) is a complete waste of time on a fresh install.
This is not only totally false, but (almost) libelous with
your "piracy" statement. If a particular platform is on the Microsoft
Hardware Compatibility List (HCL), then it MUST be able to install
Windows NT from the *MICROSOFT* Windows NT distribution CD. Period.
The CD's offered up by hardware OEM's are offered as a
convenience to the user, and .NOT. (unlike Apple) as the "installer
CD."
>>CONSPICUOUS BY ITS ABSENCE: Any stuff from Compaq.
>
>There are no HAL files from Compaq on NT server (on HP does this).
This is patently false, especially for ProLiant and Prosignia
servers that shipped with *Compaq* NT/S 3.51 CD's.
Subject: Re: Appleshare IP error -29626
From: "Aaron Ciesar" <aciesar@stroke.upmc.edu>
Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 10:02:39 -0500
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"
Alex,
You have encountered the famed QuickTime/ASIP bug. All you need to do is
reinstall (if deleted) or reactivate QuickTime 3.0 via the extensions
manager. For some stupid reason, ASIP 6.1 requires QuickTime to function.
--
Aaron B. Ciesar
Data Manager/Analyst
UPMC Stroke Institute
I don't suffer from insanity. I enjoy every minute of it.
----------
>From: "The Windows-MacOS cooperation list" <winmac@xerxes.frit.utexas.edu>
>To: "The Windows-MacOS cooperation list" <winmac@xerxes.frit.utexas.edu>
>Subject: WinMac Digest #322 - 05/25/99
>Date: Tue, May 25, 1999, 8:00 PM
>
> Subject: Re: Appleshare IP error -29626
> From: Alex Dearden <pata@tampabay.rr.com>
> Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 19:43:25 -0500
> Mime-Version: 1.0
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"
>
> Hello. If any kind soul knows the answer to this I would greatly
> appreciate it (or if you are on the Appleshare IP list and want to
> forward it I'd appreciate it even more).
>
> When administering an Appleshare IP server recently upgraded to 6.1,
> every time I try to show the Shared Points from the File admin, I get a
> program error -29626.
>
> There's nothing on Apple's TIL about this.
>
> The OS is 8.1
>
> thanks in advance.
>
> Alex Dearden
> MCSE
> pata@doglover.com
Subject: Problem Reporting [Was: Mac OS 8.6]
From: David Bell <db28@alphainfo.co.uk>
Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 10:08:49 -0500
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Re my previous comments:
>In my view, while perhaps the 8.6 installer might have handled this a bit
>more cleanly, one always needs to take care in such situations, and be
>ready to re-install the additional drivers if necessary.
There seems to be a variety of experiences in relation to OS upgrades.
Perhaps I could sum up the various responses in this way:
People may or may not experience problems with OS upgrades on any
platform depending on what software and drivers are installed.
The corollary is that if you don't have a decent backup, a reasonable
understanding of how your system (and OS of choice) operates and how it's
configured, then sooner or later an upgrade is going to go horribly wrong
and you'll be left trying to pick up the pieces and looking for someone
to blame! (And for the avoidance of doubt, IMHO if you find yourself in
that unfortunate position - then it's at least partially your own fault!
:-) Where we can help each other is to offer timely warnings of
problems to avoid and/or resolve them.
But what really concerned me when I posted my original message was the
tendency for reporting what is really no more than unsubstantiated
rumours of possible problems. If people feel moved to report problems,
then can they please:
1. Ensure that there really is a problem.
2. Identify the source of the problem. If it's a problem you've
been having, then say so - maybe someone on the list can help
resolve it. If you're reporting information you've found
elsewhere, then identify (and check!) the source.
2. Adequately describe the problem.
3. Include details of how to resolve the problem - if available. Or ..
4. If resources already exist which address, and hopefully provide
solutions to the problem, then include references to them.
I don't want to single out the poster of the original message here -
because it's something that occurs repeatedly. But the post in question
illustrates what I'm saying. The message suggested there may be problems
with OS 8.6 and referred to a thread in Tidbits - "Files disappearing
after installing Mac OS 8.6" However the thread in question a) quickly
concluded that the files in question were no longer required, and b)
identified a different problem with drivers for non standard/ additional
graphics cards. So the message was misleading at best - perhaps even
unnecessarily alarmist - depending on your viewpoint.
Having now looked at www.macintouch.com (thanks to Alex for suggesting
this resource) it is clear that there are some (but not many) problems
with OS 8.6 - and that, for the most part, those that do exist have
fairly clear solutions.
No one objects to problem reports if they help others avoid or resolve
the same situation. I suggest that if we all try to follow these
guidelines - at least as far as the situation allows, it will benefit all
of us on the list.
David Bell
Alpha Information Services Ltd
Glasgow
Subject: Re: [WinMac] Re: Change a Mac's SCSI controller ID# ?
From: Tom Roth <tomroth@wfubmc.edu>
Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 12:42:23 -0500
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Alex Dearden wrote:
>
> >How about if you have a dual, internal, SCSI bus Mac,
>
> This is true. Some Macs came with a different controller (on the
> motherboard) for the internal chain and the external chain. The 500
> series (7500, etc) was that way. What Macs do you have?
So far with the CD Duplicator I've tried it on a PowerMac 7500, 8500 &
9600.
______________________________________________________________________
Tom Roth Wake Forest University School of Medicine
tomroth@wfubmc.edu Dept of Biomedical Communications
http://www.wfubmc.edu/biomed/ Medical Center Blvd
Tel 336.716.4493 Winston-Salem, NC 27157-1011
______________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: [WinMac] Mac OS 8.6
From: "John C. Welch" <jwelch@aer.com>
Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 12:58:24 -0500
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"
"Daniel L. Schwartz" wrote:
>
> [note from the moderator: I don't want this to degenerate into
> another Windows/Mac war, but Dan provides some useful information
> here]
>
> Hmmm, let's see: I didn't have to reinstall any drivers
>when installing
> NT4's Service Pack 2, 3, 4, & 5.
You're very lucky then, I had NT4 sp4 break my NFS client drivers to the
point of constant bluescreening. Couldn't boot off of anything that let
me into the system to delete the NFS drivers. Thank go for shift-boot on
the Mac. (and don't talk about safe mode in Win9X. What mental midget at
microsoft decided that booting without the CD-ROM usable was a good idea?)
>If we look at MacOS 8.5, we see that
> Service Pack 1 ("MacOS 8.5.1") and Service Pack 2 ("MacOS 8.6") may have
> needed new drivers.
The only ones I've seen are for CPU upgrade cards. 30 Macs from 8.1 to
8.6 via 8.5 and 8.5.1 without a single driver download and update required.
>AND, these drivers operate down in CPU Ring Zero
> (Supervisor or Kernel Mode), so they are indeed quite easy to break.
You mean like NT4 having the video drivers in the Kernel? Oops,
something bad happened while you were upgrading your video card. Your
kernel is hosed. Please reinstall NT. (I've had to recover 4 machines
from this)
>
> And let's not forget how MacOS 8.5/SP2, err, MacOS 8.6
>broke the latest
> released version of Adobe Type Manager. I don't think any of the NT4
> Service Packs did that trick...
Incorrect, it broke ATM DELUXE. ATM, (the control panel), still works
fine. Has all along.
>
> At 07:38 PM 5/24/99 -0500, David Bell <db28@alphainfo.co.uk> wrote:
>
> [cut]
>
> >In my view, while perhaps the 8.6 installer might have handled this a bit
> >more cleanly, one always needs to take care in such situations, and be
> >ready to re-install the additional drivers if necessary. (Surely it
> >should not be necessary to point this sort of thing out on a list that
> >deals extensively with Windows issues :-)
ANYTIME you apply an OS update or patch, there exists a reasonable
chance of something breaking. Regardless of platform. Plan for it, and
it isn't a big deal. Don't plan for it, and feel Murphy's wrath.
John
Subject: Re: [WinMac] Mac OS 8.6
From: "Daniel L. Schwartz" <expresso@snip.net>
Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 15:24:24 -0500
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"
Hello, John!
At 12:58 PM 5/27/99 -0500, you wrote:
>
>
>"Daniel L. Schwartz" wrote:
>> Hmmm, let's see: I didn't have to reinstall any drivers
>>when installing
>> NT4's Service Pack 2, 3, 4, & 5.
>
>You're very lucky then, I had NT4 sp4 break my NFS client drivers to the
>point of constant bluescreening. Couldn't boot off of anything that let
>me into the system to delete the NFS drivers. Thank go for shift-boot on
>the Mac. (and don't talk about safe mode in Win9X. What mental midget at
>microsoft decided that booting without the CD-ROM usable was a good idea?)
That one is easy: Don't use windows 9x!
Actually, you can use a 98 boot floppy WITH CD/ROM support on
a 95 box. It
creates a RAM disk to hold the uncompressed drivers.
>
>>If we look at MacOS 8.5, we see that
>> Service Pack 1 ("MacOS 8.5.1") and Service Pack 2 ("MacOS 8.6") may have
>> needed new drivers.
>
>The only ones I've seen are for CPU upgrade cards. 30 Macs from 8.1 to
>8.6 via 8.5 and 8.5.1 without a single driver download and update required.
Hmmm... Sonic's PCI ethernet drivers broke with 8.5 - And
they never fixed
it (as of about 2 months ago, when I last checked. Also, Asante's PCI
ethernet driver broke twice, with 8.5 (v3.0 to v3.1), and again with 8.6
(v3.1 to v3.11).
In fact, I had to yank the Sonic cards and install Asante
NIC's instead...
I did it for free (if I sold the original card) and then threw the Sonic
cards into low stress pee-cees...
>>AND, these drivers operate down in CPU Ring Zero
>> (Supervisor or Kernel Mode), so they are indeed quite easy to break.
>
>You mean like NT4 having the video drivers in the Kernel? Oops,
>something bad happened while you were upgrading your video card. Your
>kernel is hosed. Please reinstall NT. (I've had to recover 4 machines
>from this)
Yeah, the video drivers being moved from Ring 3 to Ring Zero
played havoc
at first... But then the screen redraw speed also doubled... Can't have
everything, `ya know! :)
BTW, did you check the Micros~1 HCL before buying those
super-duper video
cards?! If it ain't on that HCL, you take your life in your hands!
Also, were you a N.E.R.D.? No Emergency Repair Disk!
>> And let's not forget how MacOS 8.5/SP2, err, MacOS 8.6
>>broke the latest
>> released version of Adobe Type Manager. I don't think any of the NT4
>> Service Packs did that trick...
>
>Incorrect, it broke ATM DELUXE. ATM, (the control panel), still works
>fine. Has all along.
You're right: I stand corrected about ATM Deluxe. But then
again, the NT
version (I use ATM Lite) just kept chugging along...
[cut]
>ANYTIME you apply an OS update or patch, there exists a reasonable
>chance of something breaking. Regardless of platform. Plan for it, and
>it isn't a big deal. Don't plan for it, and feel Murphy's wrath.
>
>John
Subject: Speaking of NT drivers...
From: "Daniel L. Schwartz" <expresso@snip.net>
Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 15:24:29 -0500
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"
Speaking of drivers, the following just came in... And Paul
Bunn is one of
the few I trust for accurate information about NT/x86 and AlphaNT drivers &
SCSI issues. For the uninitiated, the aic78xx is also used in the 2940
series PCI option cards.
[By the way, you can download UltraBac 5.03 for both NT/W and now for
95/98 for *free* at: <http://www.ultrabac.com>. You can also download
UltraBac's "Safe - Not Sorry" disaster recovery tool for free.]
Cheers!
Dan
>From: Paul Bunn <paul@ultrabac.com>
>To: 'AlphaNT Mail List' <AlphaNT@AlphaNT.com>
>Subject: RE: Initio controller is LSI/Symbios OEM
>Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 09:18:52 -0700
>Reply-To: AlphaNT Mail List <AlphaNT@AlphaNT.com>
>X-RCPT-TO: <expresso@SNIP.NET>
>
>I have had no indication from the developer I spoke to responsible for the
>aic78xx.sys driver that it has ever been fixed or addressed. On a second
>note, has anyone else noticed the plethora of different versions of this
>driver -- each one with its own set of foibles or downright nasty bugs ?
>Installing a new aic78xx driver is a real crap shoot. Hmm.. STOP 0x7b
>inaccessible boot device -- how nice, thanks for the rigorous QA Ineptech!
>
>How important is parity detection ? I don't really know -- usually if a bus
>has enough noise and troubles that parity errors are possible the whole
>thing doesn't work anyway due to the timing/handshake signals being all
>messed up. There is also the remote possibility that the firmware on-chip
>handles parity errors automatically, but I can't see how this is possible.
>
>It's a pity that R&D and QA get such a pitiful budget at Ineptech compared
>to the obese marketing department.
>
>Regards,
>
>Paul Bunn, UltraBac.Com, 425-644-6000
>Microsoft MVP - WindowsNT
> http://www.ultrabac.com
>
Subject: Re: Problem Reporting [Was: Mac OS 8.6]
From: "Daniel L. Schwartz" <expresso@snip.net>
Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 15:24:43 -0500
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"
G'Day!
I'll respond inline...
At 10:08 AM 5/27/99 -0500, David Bell wrote in detail:
>Re my previous comments:
>
>>In my view, while perhaps the 8.6 installer might have handled this a bit
>>more cleanly, one always needs to take care in such situations, and be
>>ready to re-install the additional drivers if necessary.
My comments apply to both NT and MacOS, except as obvious...
First, it always pays to KNOW what's inside your machine:
What is the make
and model of that PCI option card?
Next, surf on over to <http://www.MacInTouch.com> for daily
bulletins. Any
suggestions for an NT equivalent, besides BugTraq?
Then, check the (Mac) disk driver publisher's site - ESPECIALLY FWB &
Apple! - for updates.
Next, check the Web site of the computer or motherboard
manufacturer for
ARC, BIOS, AlphaBIOS, or other firmware updates - Pay special attention to
embedded PCI devices (SCSI, ethernet, audio, yada yada yada) which may need
updating as well;
Then, check the PCI/ISA/NuBus card manufacturers' sites for
driver updates
and compatibility bulletins;
Next, check the software publishers' sites for any updates
and warnings.
This is ESPECIALLY important on the Mac with Extensions and Control Panels
that are deeply intertwined in the OS. Notable offenders are antivirus,
Suitcase, ATM, and Conflict Catcher. Basically, stuff that likes to load
early or patch the Menubar are likely candidates!
RDISK /S -- I hammer this home whenever I can!
Decompress and assemble each of the downloads into their own
folders; (NT)
and name them with simple names & paths you can remember, such as C:\video
C:\intel C:\SCSI and so on;
If you have multiple partitions &/or drives (Mac), drag a copy of your
present System Folder to another volume and throw out most everything
(fonts, unneeded CDEV's & INIT's, most preferences, etc.) except what is
needed to boot the machine and hook up to the LAN &/or Internet. This will
be a godsend if something blows up and you only have one machine to pull
down additional files! For NT, install a minimal Workstation installation
in a directory anywhere - I usually call it "NTHelper"
This second instance (System Folder/installation) is in addition to any
backups you may have: This will bail you out if you screw up your primary
installation. (NT) NT/Workstation can use RAID 5 (striping with parity)
volumes created in NT/Server, since the drivers are the same. (Mac) Be SURE
to get Conflict Catcher 8.x - It's "Installer Merge" takes the pain out of
figuring which Extensions & Control Panels are no longer needed, i.e. their
function has been rolled into another INIT or into the System itself.
>There seems to be a variety of experiences in relation to OS upgrades.
>Perhaps I could sum up the various responses in this way:
>
>People may or may not experience problems with OS upgrades on any
>platform depending on what software and drivers are installed.
MacOS upgrades seem to "break" more third party INIT's & CDEV's, though
even-numbered NT4 Service Packs can occasionally break stuff too. The
difference worth keeping in mind is that NT Service Packs usually break
NT's own functionality, while MacOS upgrades usually break 3rd party stuff.
>The corollary is that if you don't have a decent backup, a reasonable
>understanding of how your system (and OS of choice) operates and how it's
>configured, then sooner or later an upgrade is going to go horribly wrong
>and you'll be left trying to pick up the pieces and looking for someone
>to blame! (And for the avoidance of doubt, IMHO if you find yourself in
>that unfortunate position - then it's at least partially your own fault!
>:-) Where we can help each other is to offer timely warnings of
>problems to avoid and/or resolve them.
It was a lot easier with System 7.1 & 7.5.x than it is with
MacOS 8. And
Micros~1 doesn't help matters with THEIR Mac INIT's, either.
>But what really concerned me when I posted my original message was the
>tendency for reporting what is really no more than unsubstantiated
>rumours of possible problems. If people feel moved to report problems,
>then can they please:
>
>1. Ensure that there really is a problem.
>
>2. Identify the source of the problem. If it's a problem you've
> been having, then say so - maybe someone on the list can help
> resolve it. If you're reporting information you've found
> elsewhere, then identify (and check!) the source.
Ha Ha Ha! If one could easily *identify* the source of a problem, then
listserv traffic would be cut in half because if you can identify it you're
already well on the road to fixing it. The only traffic remaining would be
"How do I do this?"
[cut]
>David Bell
>Alpha Information Services Ltd
>Glasgow
Cheers!
Dan
* Windows-MacOS Cooperation List *
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