Re: [WinMac] Don't you ever get enough of this? (was: Email Choices)

John C. Welch(jwelch[at]aer.com)
Tue, 23 Mar 1999 12:40:28 -0500

Tim Scoff wrote:
>
> At 10:27 AM 3/23/99 , you wrote:
> > Well Dan,
> >
> > It seems you have a very hard time looking past the 'cool package'.
> > What do you mean by 'rugged & reliable' anyway, do you wanna take it
> > out to the ballpark? I'd like some arguments on this, so we can have a
> > fruitful discussion, rather then some semi-juvenile prejudices.
> >
>
> Unfortunately I have to agree with him. When I install a server I
> want a hardware RAID controller, enough room internally for at least 6 hard
> drives, and hot swappable drives. I also would like to have at least 6 PCI
> slots for extra RAID controllers and network cards. Multiple internal
> modems for low end servers are another feature that I can't get with a Mac
> server. Another nice feature is the ability to disconnect the mouse,
> keyboard, and monitor from the PC servers and lock them in a closet.

You can buy hardware RAID controllers for the Mac. You can get an
external PCI Chassis, that gives a total of 9 slots with no loss in
speed or reliability, (it's basically a PCI backplane, used for years in
other applications). External hot-swap towers take care of the drive
number issues. You can easily run a headless Mac server, I've done it

> With Apple's current product line you are limited to 3 PCI slots
> (ok, that's a second NIC and 2 SCSI cards.), 1 or 2 internal hard drives,
> no hot-swap capability, & no hardware RAID. Plus the Mac doesn't support
> multi homing across multiple NICs, so I can't have redundant network
> controllers. And let's not even talk about multiple, hot-swappable power
> supplies.

        If you remove the internal ZIP, you get 3 drive bays. The MacOS doesn't
do multi-homing, and this is a bit silly, but you can have multiple
NICs, and script the changeover when one fails.

> Then you need to start looking at the Mac OS (NOT Mac OS X, but
> every other one) as a server OS and you find some major faults also. Those
> faults make it a better OS for a desktop user, but a worse OS for a server
> for the most part, so I am very happy with them. However the point remains
> that the Mac was not designed for multiple users to be accessing it at the
> same time. It was designed for a single user. Try accessing a Mac Server
> when someone is sitting at the server with the mouse button held down. It
> can not be done because the OS sits there and waits for the mouse button to
> be released before processing any other command. On NT this results in
> dialog boxes and messages (I administer a network) popping up when you're
> using the mouse and popping to the front of the screen, disrupting your
> work. For a workstation that is terrible, but for a server where everyone
> needs equal access at the same time it gives ever process access to the CPU.
>

        good point and well stated, although the mouse-down issue has yet to
hurt my ASIP 6.1.1 server. That is less of an OS and more of an
application issue anymore.

> My point isn't that the Mac isn't a great computer with an even
> better OS. My point is that the Mac OS is not designed as a server and
> neither is Apple's hardware. They are designed as desktop workstations and
> are great workstations. They aren't designed as servers, so there are some
> weaknesses.
>

        FINALLY, someone who compares apples to...apples :)

> > Do you really need to use every opportunity you can (or can't) get to
> > rant & and rave off topic towards Steve Jobs and where he's steering
> > Apple? Just because he axed something (clones) you had just advised to
> > some of your customers. C'mon, everyone saw that one coming a wile
> > away.
> >
>
> P.S. I am a fan of Steve Jobs. He's doing some wonderful things
> for Apple and he's keeping the Mac OS going.
>
> > Apart from that, thanks for all the useful comments.
> > Regards,
> >
> > Pascal Nieuwland
> > Macintosh systems administrator
> > Packaging Technology, World-wide
> > Cordis, Johnson & Johnson
> >
> > per address:
> > Oosteinde 8
> > 9301 LJ Roden
> > The Netherlands
> >
> > phone: +31 50 50 22 488
> > fax: +31 50 50 22 409
> > home phone: +31 50 58 90 540
> > email: pnieuwla@crdnl.jnj.com
> >
> > --------------------------------------------------------------------
> > "You think it's a conspiracy by the networks to put bad shows on TV.
> > But the shows are bad because that's what people want. It's not like
> > Windows users don't have any power. I think they are happy with
> > Windows, and that's an incredibly depressing thought."
> >
> > Steve Jobs, Apple iCEO
> > --------------------------------------------------------------------
> >______________________________ Reply Separator
> >_________________________________
> >Subject: [WinMac] Re: Email Choices
> >Author: ,Daniel L. Schwartz [SMTP:expresso@snip.net] at NCSBEEXT01
> >Date: 1999/03/23 14:56
> >
> > <snip>
> >
> > However, I kind of agree with your Novell jock about ASIP 6.x [and
> >OS-X],
> >but for another reason: The lack of robust hardware. The Mac evangelists
> >will be screaming and jumping up & down, but there is NO COMPARISON between
> >a toy plastic blue & white Mac and a ProLiant. Say what you want about x86,
> >but the commercial servers from IBM and Compaq ARE rugged and reliable...
> >Something that Apple's industrial design staff seems to have overlooked to
> >produce a "cool looking" package. [I say this as I'm looking at my IBM
> >IntelliStation Z Pro workstation and making a mental comparison to the guts
> >of a blue & white G3 Mac...]
> >
> > Yours truly,
> >Dan Schwartz
> >
> >
> >* Windows-MacOS Cooperation List *
>
> * Windows-MacOS Cooperation List *

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