[WinMac] RE: Subject: aliases to servers point to wrong volumes


John W. McCarthy(jwmcmac[at]flash.net)
Fri, 29 Jan 1999 13:49:58 -0600


I second Noel's comment on aliases (same as Windows "shortcuts", I
think). But I am stretching it (my ability to comment) on this . . .
since I am not really a qualified programmer, tech or service person . .
. only a long time Mac user.

Never had any problem whatsoever with this till recently.

Running OS 8.1 or 8.5.1 on several non-networked Macs, we have had
difficulty with aliases losing their true reference from the Apple Menu
(local items), . . . or . . . from the desktop (aliases to items that do
not exist physically on the computer's local drives - these being
non-local items - cause a hang on a non-networked computer (see special
case for this condition below *).

I turned off Apple menu options (maybe should have just trashed the
preferences), using "OtherMenu" instead, and all goes well.

* Actually, only had one Mac 7500/100 that had the desktop aliases hang
problem and it is a special case where it is running 7.6.1 and using the
Appearance Manager Control Panel from 8.0 or 8.1 (and one or two other
init/control-panels from later system -- I don't have permission to
upgrade fully yet). I got rid of the desktop aliases that are not
accessible locally and have no more hangs. Never did have any hangs
from the desktop aliases that actually refer to a local item.

My systems usually are not pristine so it is more difficult to determine
the cause of some problems. However, it does appear that the Apple Menu
Options Control Panel has some troubles with aliases that may or may not
be tied in with the finder's own fragility at resolving aliases -- but
mainly the problems appear to be with Apple Menu Options.

At this time, I make it a point to not use Apple Menu Options. There
are 3rd party shareware programs/inits/control-panels that work better
(OtherMenu, MenuChoice, etc . . .). . . and never hang anything.

Just a point: Although many kludge init/control-panel arrangements work
on an individual Mac (such as grabbing pieces from different systems to
run together) . . . these may not work on a networked Mac environment.

Also, it is so easy to do things (or attempt things) on the Mac and the
Mac is often so forgiving that I (and you too perhaps) tend to do things
that otherwise could not even be attempted on a Wintel machine.

We can add an alias of a hard drive (local or networked) to our Apple
Menu Items Folder and gain access to the whole thing similar to the way
the Windows Start Menu works. We can put folder references (aliases)
inside of folder references ad infinitum . . . sort of.

Then we can copy this whole system folder over to another drive, having
our aliases lose some contact with their intended target, but retaining
a sort of generic reference to (let's say) items in the local System
Folder, such as: control panels folder, extensions folder, etc. . ..
(yes, the alias will actually open something it did not initially point
at, but which is the same thing in the new environment).

In the process of moving things around like this, while trying to hang
on to as many references as possible without redoing all those aliases,
the Mac can understandably get confused and probably runs into a
redundant looped reference situation that may not be obvious to us. I
know I probably/possibly have one or more endless loops in my Apple Menu
somewhere. I think the only one that the Mac can't deal with is a
non-local related loop. Since I reference the same things, and even the
Apple Menu Items Folder itself, from OtherMenu, but never have a problem
from Other Menu, I tend to use that more often.

Either Apple needs to pull in the reigns on its' Apple Menu Options or
ask those 3rd party guys what they are doing to keep their
inits/cotrol-panels working in spite of all of these potential problems.

Anyway, I feel the alias problem mentioned in the post below may not be
a problem with NT, but with Apple's own Apple Menu Options control
panel's difficult with handling some alias situations (which seems to be
inherent in the the new system 8.x Finder itself to a lesser degree).

Don't get me wrong, I think the MacOS does a great job with aliases, but
it is not perfect and perhaps needs a little fine tuning. When they get
it to where you can do "everything" with an alias that can be done with
the original file . . . ah . . . nirvana ... never . . . don't need it .
. .oh well.

Whewwwwww . . . tooo . . . . looooooonnnnnng. Sorry.

God Bless us all.

Pat Kelly McCarthy

> > Subject: aliases to servers point to wrong volumes
> > Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 17:49:12 -0800
> > From: Matthew Easton
> >
> > Is this is a Mac->NT thing, a bug in Appleshare, a bug in NT's Services for
> > Macintosh, or perhaps a problem with Norton Antivirus 5.x?
> >
> > We have various System 8.1 PowerMacs which access an NT server running
> > Services for Macintosh. There are half a dozen or so Mac-accessible
> > volumes on a single host.
> >
> > >From at least some of the Macs:
> >
> > I can open each volume from the Chooser and create an alias to it. The
> > alias points correctly to its proper original. However, if I then open
> > several (usually 3 or more) volumes by double-clicking on aliases, several
> > of the aliases will point to the wrong original volume. The alias is
> > apparently altered permanently-- path is changed and the custom icon will
> > also change to look like the new original.
>
> Hi,
> I had this problem with local volumes (external SCSI) and it seems like
> the culprit was the apple menu (mabe options) preferences. After I
> trashed them that and some other problems went away never to return.
>
>
> HTH
>
> --
> Noel Alford
>
> Visit us at http://www.asapprinting.com
>
> ASAP Printing and Copying
> 401 East Capitol Street
> Suite 102
> Jackson, MS 39201
>
> 601-354-9600
>
>

I second Noel's comment on aliases (same as Windows "shortcuts", I think).  But I am stretching it (my ability to comment) on this . . . since I am not really a qualified programmer, tech or service person . . . only a long time Mac user.

Never had any problem whatsoever with this till recently.

Running OS 8.1 or 8.5.1 on several non-networked Macs, we have had difficulty with aliases losing their true reference from the Apple Menu (local items), . . . or . . . from the desktop (aliases to items that do not exist physically on the computer's local drives - these being non-local items - cause a hang on a non-networked computer (see special case for this condition below *).

I turned off Apple menu options (maybe should have just trashed the preferences), using "OtherMenu"  instead, and all goes well.

* Actually, only had one Mac 7500/100 that had the desktop aliases hang problem and it is a special case where it is running 7.6.1 and using the Appearance Manager Control Panel from 8.0 or 8.1 (and one or two other init/control-panels from later system -- I don't have permission to upgrade fully yet).  I got rid of the desktop aliases that are not accessible locally and have no more hangs.  Never did have any hangs from the desktop aliases that actually refer to a local item.

My systems usually are not pristine so it is more difficult to determine the cause of some problems.  However, it does appear that the Apple Menu Options Control Panel has some troubles with aliases that may or may not be tied in with the finder's own fragility at resolving aliases -- but mainly the problems appear to be with Apple Menu Options.

At this time, I make it a point to not use Apple Menu Options.  There are 3rd party shareware programs/inits/control-panels that work better (OtherMenu, MenuChoice, etc . . .). . . and never hang anything.

Just a point:  Although many kludge init/control-panel arrangements work on an individual Mac (such as grabbing pieces from different systems to run together) . . . these may not work on a networked Mac environment.

Also, it is so easy to do things (or attempt things) on the Mac and the Mac is often so forgiving that I (and you too perhaps) tend to do things that otherwise could not even be attempted on a Wintel machine.

We can add an alias of a hard drive (local or networked) to our Apple Menu Items Folder and gain access to the whole thing similar to the way the Windows Start Menu works.  We can put folder references (aliases) inside of folder references ad infinitum . . . sort of.

Then we can copy this whole system folder over to another drive, having our aliases lose some contact with their intended target, but retaining a sort of generic reference to (let's say) items in the local System Folder, such as: control panels folder, extensions folder, etc. . .. (yes, the alias will actually open something it did not initially point at, but which is the same thing in the new environment).

In the process of moving things around like this, while trying to hang on to as many references as possible without redoing all those aliases, the Mac can understandably get confused and probably runs into a redundant looped reference situation that may not be obvious to us.  I know I probably/possibly have one or more endless loops in my Apple Menu somewhere.  I think the only one that the Mac can't deal with is a non-local related loop.  Since I reference the same things, and even the Apple Menu Items Folder itself, from OtherMenu, but never have a problem from Other Menu, I tend to use that more often.

Either Apple needs to pull in the reigns on its' Apple Menu Options or ask those 3rd party guys what they are doing to keep their inits/cotrol-panels working in spite of all of these potential problems.

Anyway, I feel the alias problem mentioned in the post below may not be a problem with NT, but with Apple's own Apple Menu Options control panel's difficult with handling some alias situations (which seems to be inherent in the the new system 8.x Finder itself to a lesser degree).

Don't get me wrong, I think the MacOS does a great job with aliases, but it is not perfect and perhaps needs a little fine tuning.  When they get it to where you can do "everything" with an alias that can be done with the original file . . . ah . . . nirvana ... never . . . don't need it . . .oh well.

Whewwwwww . . .  tooo . . . . looooooonnnnnng.  Sorry.
 

God Bless us all.

Pat Kelly McCarthy
 

> Subject: aliases to servers point to wrong volumes
> Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 17:49:12 -0800
> From: Matthew Easton 
> 
> Is this is a Mac->NT thing, a bug in Appleshare, a bug in NT's Services for
> Macintosh, or perhaps a problem with Norton Antivirus 5.x?
> 
> We have various System 8.1 PowerMacs which access an NT server running
> Services for Macintosh.  There are half a dozen or so Mac-accessible
> volumes on a single host.
> 
> >From at least some of the Macs:
> 
> I can open each volume from the Chooser and create an alias to it.  The
> alias points correctly to its proper original.  However, if I then open
> several (usually 3 or more) volumes by double-clicking on aliases, several
> of the aliases will point to the wrong original volume.  The alias is
> apparently altered permanently-- path is changed and the custom icon will
> also change to look like the new original.

Hi,
        I had this problem with local volumes (external SCSI) and it seems like
the culprit was the apple menu (mabe options) preferences. After I
trashed them that and some other problems went away never to return.


HTH 

-- 
Noel Alford

Visit us at http://www.asapprinting.com

ASAP Printing and Copying
401 East Capitol Street
Suite 102
Jackson, MS 39201

601-354-9600

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This archive was generated by hypermail 2.0b2 on Fri Jan 29 1999 - 11:52:28 PST