[WinMac] RE: Professionalism


David Linsey(linseyda[at]pilot.msu.edu)
Mon, 11 Jan 1999 16:02:35 -0500


For somebody who a few minutes earlier wrote a letter condoning all the
gripes by Dan, this letter seems a bit out of place.

I think Thomas Hill put it well when he called this list "a group of
professionals." It must not be forgotton that that was the entire point of
this list. I agree the past few days the conversation has not been quite as
dry as normal, and at times entertaining, but the messages seem to be
leaving the facts behind.

If it could be possible that the previously seen professionalism could
return, instead of a holy war between two sides.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: winmac@xerxes.frit.utexas.edu
> [mailto:winmac@xerxes.frit.utexas.edu]On Behalf Of thomas kase
> Sent: Monday, January 11, 1999 3:34 PM
> To: The Windows-MacOS cooperation list
> Subject: [WinMac] RE: Cost/functionality analysis
>
>
>
> > From: Dan Schwartz <expresso@snip.net>
> >
> > Matt:
> >
> > Let's look at your analysis, inline.
>
> It even starts out in a condescending way...
>
> > At 10:56 AM 1/9/99 -0600, Matt Shannon wrote:
> > >>Subject: Re: [WinMac] Graphic production, which is the
> better platform?
> > >>From: Liam Helmer <liamh@axion.net>
> > >>
> > >>>The people who put out our newsletter for our company
> are using Macs
> > >>>to do all the design and pre-press stuff. Our company is moving
> > >>>towards being PCs. The question is, should the artists
> switch to PCs
> > >>>or keep using their Macs? I know some of this is a matter of
> > >>>preference but I need some hard facts on the pros and
> cons of each for
> > >>>this kind of work. Does anyone know of any studies or
> where I can find
> > >>>more info? Please let me know. Thanks.
> > >
> > >I work for the Marketing department of a printing company.
> Not long ago
> > >we were looking at getting a lot of new prepress equipment (new
> > >imagesetter, RIP, proofers, etc...) We were going to need
> to upgrade our
> > >Macs within another year or so and it was decided to go
> ahead and upgrade
> > >those at the same time as the equipment purchase. The IS
> manager casually
> > >brought up the question of replacing those 5 macs with
> PC's. The reaction
> > >from the prepress department was incredible. Everyone of
> them said they'd
> > >quit if they had to switch to PC's, including the manager.
> >
> > This is a management problem: Who is running your
> company, the employees
> > or the owner/manager(s)? This is more like the inmates
> running the asylum...
>
> Dan, this is maybe THE best example I have *ever* seen of
> Wintel techie
> attitude (aka 'Computer Support') = screw the user, we know
> what's best
> for you.
>
> Should we call this being Dan:ified?
>
> You must not have any employees Dan - not with that attitude.
>
> > >This was an emotional reaction and I came up with more factual
> > >reason's for them not to switch to PC's.
> > >
> > >1) Files received from outside sources come from who knows
> what! Macs are
> > >better equipped to deal with Windows app version files
> than the other way
> > >around.
> >
> > Very true
>
> Gracious - a compliment - should we bow?
>
> > >2) They'd have to learn a whole new OS and quickly, which
> would put more
> > >of a strain on IS and add more cost to the company.
> >
> > Not really: If your company is already running x86,
> **even in other
> > departments,** then the switchover is almost seamless.
> After all, once the
> > operator launches the application the OS gracefully bows
> out. In fact,
> > PageMaker, Photoshop, Illustrator, FreeHand, and (I think)
> QuarkXPress use
> > the same manual for Mac & Windows.
>
> Duh!
>
> How about using the god-forsaken Windows Explorer with all its pranks?
>
> How about lack of true drag and drop between apps?
>
> How about printing shenanigans? Sometimes not even simple things like
> a bold font will print predictably under NT.
>
> > >3) We would have possibly had to hire all new prepress department.
> >
> > Again, this is a *managerial* problem: Who's running the asylum?
> >
> > Also, ask yourself this hard question: Are these
> rebellion-prone employees
> > worth keeping in the first place? After all, they are not
> the business
> > owner... They are the employees.
>
> Employees, Dan - not slaves - there is a difference.
>
> > >4) PostScript output from a Mac is generally much more
> reliable than PC's.
> >
> > False: PostScript is, and always has been since its
> inception in ~1982,
> > platform independent. Just download the latest PostScript
> drivers from:
> >
> <http://www.adobe.com/supportservice/custsupport/LIBRARY/pdrvm
> ac.htm> or
> >
> <http://www.adobe.com/supportservice/custsupport/LIBRARY/pdrvw
> in.htm> for
> > Mac and NT, respectively;
>
> This defines reason - can you HONESTLY say that Windows apps print
> PS output as consistently as Mac?
>
> > >5) Color correction is built into the MacOS in the form of
> ColorSync.
> > >This is not the case on the PC. Color correction on the PC
> is different
> > >for each and every application.
> >
> > If you use Adobe apps across the board, then you can
> use the Kodak Color
> > Management System across the board.
> > >
> > >6) The PC's we'd have to get were more expensive than the
> Mac's we'd have
> > >to get.
> >
> > I *strongly* doubt that. If you compare Apple's
> "Steveified" tech support
> > and warranty to similar PC manufacturer support (such as
> H-P), then the
> > cost for Apple machines is actually higher. Sure, IBM and
> DIGITAL/Compaq's
> > commercial products cost more than H-P... But you get MUCH
> more in service
> > and support.
>
> And with NT you *need* it - with Macs you rarely do.
>
> > >So basically it cost us much less to stay with Macs than
> switch to PC's.
> >
> > And how many times per day do the Macs have to reboot?!
>
> When did you last try a Mac? Was it back in the Quadra days?
> Perhaps a 6100?
>
> How often does the Windows Explorer crash - forcing you to log off
> and back on to get back all the services that went down with it?
>
> Let's face it - for anyone running multiple apps, regularly installing
> and "uninstalling"(as it is known by non-Mac users) apps - NT is not
> a bulletproof system.
>
> Which will be on the market sooner - NT5 or MacOS X?
>
> > Yours truly,
> > Daniel L. Schwartz,
> > Electrical Engineer.
> >
> > Dan's Macintosh Consulting
>
>
> Thomas Kase
>
> US-Style.com Inc. 33 south main street, #7, south norwalk, ct 06854
> phone: 203.866.4454 fax: 203.866.4546
> email: thomas@accessio.com
>
> \\\\ the bridge to Japan (TM) \\\\
>
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This archive was generated by hypermail 2.0b2 on Mon Jan 11 1999 - 13:14:07 PST